Diagnosis

[frogmn666]

When I put this new dizzy in today, I checked and the rotor was pointing to #1 at about the end of the rotor. Meaning that if the rotor tip was 1/2" long, it was at the last 1/16".

My comment of not driving is related to not driving after I have had anything to drink.

 

[grocery getter]

does it start easily or do you have to pump the gas? I was hoping you would've started with a completely fresh dist.
there are so many things going on here.

did you run the dist. ground to the module?
did you plug the scv port on the carb properly. I remember reading there is a specific way to do it but I can't find where it was posted.

if you don't want to get a new dist. i'd put the old one back in, but not plug vac. line into the carb. and see how it goes...

leave everything else the same. just remove the dsII and put in your old dist.
12 volts to the coil.

 

[60s Refugee]

Here's what I did with the timing today: I had already verified my balancer timing mark as being correct. I brought the engine to TDC. Next I rotated back to 8* BTDC. Then I rotated the dizzy so that the rotor is aimed right at the #1 contact. I discovered that the vac nipple would be blocked by the dipstick! So, I reset the dizzy gear one spot over and reset to #1 again. That left the nipple pointing to about 4 o'clock.

I expect that will be enough to get it started.

No. I didn't get her going today. Just too much for a one armed guy to get done in one day! Header goes on tomorrow, rocker arms and push rods, linkage and fuel lines, vac and modulator lines, ign wiring, and worse than that, I just found the oil slinger still laying on the bench! opsie: Crap! I hafta' pull the timing cover again.

I also expect the alternator/AC compressor mount will hafta' be modified so the alternator will clear the header. I saw a warning about this conflict on another thread.

But, I did get the new engine and tranny mounts in, removed the OEM transverse exhaust system, put in the studs for the header and valve cover, took photos of all the ign parts for a new post, installed the dizzy, the fuel pump, the coil, the lifters and head, modified the carb base for the new vac advance line, the starter, fabricated a clip to hold the choke cable, sat the valve cover in place for effect, and then found the slinger. Age does have certain short term memory disadvantages.

Harry

 

[Bort62]

I would run it first to verify that the oil slinger is needed.

Later model engines didn't come w/ one as seal technology improved.

 

[frogmn666]

Getter, it fires right up with a little gas. The distributor is bacically new or should I say rebuilt to new specs. I was suspect of the first one I got from Checker Auto so I returned it and bought one from Autozone that would not fit. The gear was .35" to big to go into the block. I bought back the one from Checker and swapped out the AZ base plate and pick-up coil into the Checker one. It still won't idle. AZ says the module is good.

I did not run a ground from the dizzy connector to ground as my VOM showed the dizzy and black lead on the connector to be grounded to the block, as is the HEI module. It showed .2 ohms, which is probably the resistance of the VOM leads.

The SCV port does not enter into this discussion as the vacuum line is not connected. It should idle at 8-10° initial advance without vacuum.
Read some of Bort's posts.

If I put my old dizzy in, it should run fine with the 12 volt coil I have on it now. I may just do that just to prove that there is nothing wrong with my carb or fuel supply.

I'm not out to make any record 1/4 mile times. From what I have read, this is an easy mod to improve performance and gas mileage.

Like they say, "If it ain't broke , don't fix it." I'm not like that. Always have to tinker.

 

[grocery getter]

well.... it is broke. you need to get to a baseline.

as far as anything entering this discussion. everything goes... you're ruling out things that can be the problem. that might be the problem

 

[frogmn666]

The only thing that changed was the dizzy, coil and module.
Three different coils and two pick-up sensors leave only the HEI module to be at fault. I'm getting tired of this too and hope to resolve this and enlighten others of possible problems.

 

[Bort62]

The SCV vacuum nipple is plugged, right ?

 

[frogmn666]

No the vacuum line to the dizzy is not plugged. Remember that it is only pulling 3"s. When I put my finger over it, nothing changes. I did have it plugged when I first started it, but found it made no difference.

That was a bad idea to drive it. I put it in reverse and it died, so I let it roll onto the street. Started it and every time I put it in gear, it died. My many efforts to back it up and get it back in my driveway drained the battery. I had to put two extension cords together to get my charger to the street. Hope I didn't hurt the tranny by putting it in gear at over 1200 rpm several times. I finally got it back in my driveway.

 

[Bort62]

No the vacuum line to the dizzy is not plugged. Remember that it is only pulling 3"s. When I put my finger over it, nothing changes. I did have it plugged when I first started it, but found it made no difference.

That was a bad idea to drive it. I put it in reverse and it died, so I let it roll onto the street. Started it and every time I put it in gear, it died. My many efforts to back it up and get it back in my driveway drained the battery. I had to put two extension cords together to get my charger to the street. Hope I didn't hurt the tranny by putting it in gear at over 1200 rpm several times. I finally got it back in my driveway.

Your timing is WAY off.

 

[frogmn666]

So what.. Do I have a window of 12° BTDC where it may kick back and 0° where it barely runs? Your are funny, but thanks for the help. I do sincerly appeciate all the sugestions and hope you are right.

Have you ever had an engine that ran fine at 1050, but if it went below that, it died abruptly.


Me neither.

 

[grocery getter]

until you properly plug the scv and the dizzy port you will have problems.

you may have more than one issue. but the open dizzy port and your scv are issues you need to fix. before you chase any other gremlins.

reading your posts, i'm convinced you're trying to fix a carb issue with timing.

I hope ya' get it.

 

[60s Refugee]

Wouldn't plugging the dizzy port close off the whole system? If not, how would you plud the scv? Screw it out and plug that hole too?

Harry

 

[grocery getter]

Wouldn't plugging the dizzy port close off the whole system? If not, how would you plud the scv? Screw it out and plug that hole too?

Harry

look at the pic in the scv thread (sticky) . even with the dist port blocked you'll get a vacuum leak. yes there is a restriction to the venturi but any vacuum leak is a problem.

if you look under the carb just above the base you'll see the hole going towards the scv. some guys will just epoxy that up.

 

[60s Refugee]

Heck, I thought that hole was for the choke draft . Good news is that I already filled it with RTV. I'll dig that out and put in some JB weld!

Harry

 

[grocery getter]

Heck, I thought that hole was for the choke draft . Good news is that I already filled it with RTV. I'll dig that out and put in some JB weld!

Harry

there is more than one hole there. to be sure, remove the scv and run a very small wire from the scv port and see where it comes out.
(canned air might work)
or... you can plug the holes in the scv port (remove the scv) fill the holes and replace it for a stock look.

 

[frogmn666]

until you properly plug the scv and the dizzy port you will have problems.

you may have more than one issue. but the open dizzy port and your scv are issues you need to fix. before you chase any other gremlins.

reading your posts, i'm convinced you're trying to fix a carb issue with timing.

I hope ya' get it.

Looking at the SCV pic, I see the venturi pick-up and the manifold pick-up. Other then the distributor vacuum tube port, what else would need to be plugged. I already said that plugging the vacuum line at the dizzy didn't change anything. Idle stayed the same and I only get 3" of vacuum there. I can get 5" if I rev it up. Too hot to work on it this afternoon, but tomorrow I will put the stock dizzy in and see if it idles without the vacuum line connected to the dizzy.

 

[Bort62]

I feel like we are going in circles at this point.

You need to have all vacuum nipples on the carb plugged. If they are open, it will be a vacuum leak and will cause problems - especially at idle. There is also an internal vacuum issue caused by the SCV that GG referenced above.

Assuming you don't have any vacuum leaks, if you put a load on the motor and it promptly dies, it is a good indication that your timing is way off. I still haven't seen that you have verfied TDC or anything along those lines. You could very well be idling @ 30* initial.

and yes, I have had plenty of motors that I have had to idle above 1000 rpm.

Main causes? Vacuum leaks and screwed up timing.

 

[grocery getter]

until you properly plug the scv and the dizzy port you will have problems.

you may have more than one issue. but the open dizzy port and your scv are issues you need to fix. before you chase any other gremlins.

reading your posts, i'm convinced you're trying to fix a carb issue with timing.

I hope ya' get it.

Looking at the SCV pic, I see the venturi pick-up and the manifold pick-up. Other then the distributor vacuum tube port, what else would need to be plugged. I already said that plugging the vacuum line at the dizzy didn't change anything. Idle stayed the same and I only get 3" of vacuum there. I can get 5" if I rev it up. Too hot to work on it this afternoon, but tomorrow I will put the stock dizzy in and see if it idles without the vacuum line connected to the dizzy.

if you just plug the dizzy port.when the scv pulls in, the manifold loses vacuum to the venturi. it becomes an internal leak. with the dizzy port is open it will pull from both. you mention in a earlier post it was worse with the old scv. it probably had a weaker spring and the scv pulled in earlier.

it's over 100 degrees here. i'm glad the mustang is finally in the garage.

 

[Frankenstang]

Excuse me for playing mr. obvious here, but I read this post last night and a couple of your comments made me squirm.

I bought a digital Acutron timing light and with my stock dizzy and the vacuum line off, it shows 26° initial advance. Don't know if my damper is correct. Will have to verify TDC as that seem quite high.

26* does not seem right at all for initial timing with the vacum line plugged. This is where the timing was set on old dizzy? Either the damper is off, or its off a tooth or two on the stab.

Got her running. Won't idle below about 1200 with initial at 10°. I suspect it needs manifold vacuum to kick the timing up into the 20s or more. It's kinda weird. If I tweak the idle mixture or idle speed screw, it quits abruptly if the rpm drops below ~1200. No sputter, just dies. Hope everything electronic wise is ok.

Idle mixture and idle speed are not one in the same. Are you running an 1100? On that mixture is at very base of carb on passenger side, idle speed is on the back on throttle linkage. GG may be right on fule problem, and you may not have confirmed your running on the idle circuit.

The dizzy's vacuum nipple points right at the dipstick and is 1/8" away. I will re-index the dizzy to get it right. I could move the plug wires, but that would mean that #1 on the cap is not #1 anymore. Not my style.

Did you re-index dizzy. That could introduce a whole other problem, potentiallly a couple moving targets now?

I just checked vacuum at the 1100. 3". At the PCV valve 19.5. I then hooked my MityVac to the dizzy and pulled 20". Hot damn, I can get the idle down to what sounded like the correct rpm. Didn't have the tach hooked up. But, how would I check timing with the vacuum off as it should be. Something else is causing this

So you are running an 1100, but how do you get 3" at the carb and 20" at the dizzy? Bort62 wrote:

You mentioned using a SCV valve, but you have a duraspark distributor. The two are not compatible.

You need to feed your duraspark's vacuum avance (IMO) full manifold vacuum. Some will suggest ported vacuum, but the difference basically is whether or not you want advance at idle or not.

I'm not sure you saw this point, and I am no expert and have not done this upgrade, but I have heard these are not compatible to the point of don't even bother trying it.

GG wrote:

reading your posts, i'm convinced you're trying to fix a carb issue with timing.

Bort62 wrote:

if you put a load on the motor and it promptly dies, it is a good indication that your timing is way off. I still haven't seen that you have verfied TDC or anything along those lines. You could very well be idling @ 30* initial.

You were at 26* before you started this swap? Something wrong there. Only way I know to id TDC for sure is pull no. 1 plug and put your thumb over hole while manually turning engine, when pressure pushes your thumb off, that's TDC, and where the rotor is at on that stroke, with no.1 piston at top, is where no. 1 wire should be. You could also use compression guage. If no. 1 is at top and no pressure on plug hole you're on exhaust stroke, 180 out. You must verify TDC for either distributor and to verify your balancer is not slipping.

I think you do have a fuel problem though, because you keep stating that one you get above ~1000 it runs find. Sounds like once you overcome idle circuit, the main jet runs smooth. You mentioned recently rebuilding the 1100, and those are pretty simple, but if your worked on one like mine that was rebuilt by a rebuilder shop...you're likely missing parts. I picked up a spare 1100 for $30 on ebay to make sure I have the accelorator discharge check weight, fuel bowl vent rod, and other parts rebuilders typically remove. Incorrectl float or leaking saturated/float setting will also be more noticeable at idle.

I do think you should go immediately back to the old dizzy, and remove one unknown/change to system, and make sure you're on TDC and fuel is not an issue. If you cannot affect idle with mixture, not idle speed/rpm then you're not working on idle circuit or carb could be plugged or bypassing internally. Point is now, you've got at least one more variable than necessary trying to convert to HEI.
Robert