FSPP Aluminum Head - 11-4 UPDATE

[XFlow_Fairlane]

^^^^

there goes Linc with another numbered list :roll:

 

[AzCoupe]

As stated previously (numerous times), we still need to produce the first batch of proto type heads and run them on the dyno's. Once the testing has been completed, we will release the details on a C/D, but not until then. Please have some patients and let us complete our work. Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

get it up to 11.5 if you want. And still use pump gas.

That is too sweeping of a statement....

1) At what octane?

2) as corrected to "standard day" conditions, or at sea level, or in Denver, or?

3) At what coolant temperature?

4) At what Air/Fuel ratio?

5) At what timing specification?

6) With what piston shape?

7) etc....

The answer to 1-7--- As required to run 11.5 CR with pump gas. Anyone who would go for it already knows how much the motor is going to have to be built to do it and the issues. Anyone who doesn't know is going to tell you 9.5 to one is as high as you can "safely" go.
But I like my pistons round shape. (that's the big key) I'm just kidding. Really.

 

[maverickhead]

Sounds great! I'd like to have a 250-300 hp 250/t5 combo.Beat up on some v8's and get 25 mpg.Cool.

 

[Anonymous]

there goes Linc with another numbered list

Someone's gotta be the devil's advocate.


It's all about keeping it realistic.
I love a dog and pony show as much as anyone, but the hard facts are FACTS ... optimism is a great thing, it creates all sorts of new things for everybody.

I am not new to the science of engine building, and when some one says you can make 400 (or MORE????!!??) horsepower from a 200 cubic inch engine and still have good street manners and have low end torque, etc....I say "prove it".

I believe it will be a great design, but I want to put my hands on one and run it before I make ANY assumptions of what it might be capable of doing.

Of much more importance than power that I would be concerned about are longetivity, endurance, casting porousity, resitance to corrosion, etc. That is where you get your money's worth.

A great design that has poor construction is worthless if it lasts for 30 days then fails for whatever reason. Most failures are due to poor manufacturing. It is very hard for a small production number head to be built to quality standards and be cost effective. Look at the Esslinger head for the 2.3 liter - - - it's $2600. I think this head will be close to that if made in the USA, less if made overseas somewhere.

I cheer Mike - It is VERY (no, make that EXTREMELY) difficult for anyone to pull off an entirely new head design unless you are Edelbrock or someone.

.........But I also think the hype should be kept to a bare minimum unless there is an actual product available to test out. That isn't going to be available for quite some time. And then it will be just a prototype, not an actual production piece. Those will need to be tested, too.

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

.........But I also think the hype should be kept to a bare minimum unless there is an actual product available to test out. That isn't going to be available for quite some time. And then it will be just a prototype, not an actual production piece. Those will need to be tested, too.

exactly....on the 2.3T board an engineer drew up a nice DOHC head for us....was gonna happen.....until he got a quote for casting them (along with intakes, valvecovers) and other needed parts (cams, sprockets, etc) in the end it was going to run him 20K a PIECE for two prototype heads. at that point with a limited market (guessing sales of maybe 200 units) it wasn't economical....esp since an existing SOHC head existed that flowe REAL well (ARCA race head) for only $3k

I am going to be ready for a head next winter I think but holding back for mike's head to see if it is better than the alloy argie head

 

[addo]

My understanding of the situation is that some production concerns are addressed already:

- The patterns will be CNC'd so there is relative ease of revision.
- The likely foundry has a proven history of alloy casting hi-po six and eight (well, half-eight ) cylinder heads.
- The designer responsible for flow changes to the OEM style unit has genuine and outstanding results under his belt.

How the head will be positively located on the deck is something that may be of interest, as I can imagine a couple of dowel sleeve installs being needed.

As to final price - yes everyone has that concern, don't they! I don't want to see Mike going backwards fiscally, for sure. There has to be some fat in the retail price so it appeals to resellers.

Cheers, Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

There has to be some fat in the retail price so it appeals to resellers.

As of today there are 6313 members on the member list. If 1% buy one of mike's heads that is 63 units, if 2% that would be 126 heads.

I am thinking possibly 20-25 firm orders for the first 365 days after the product becomes available. Once the initial thirst for the design has been quenched, perhaps 10-15 heads per year afterwards. Perhaps a deal could be made with Clifford, Sumit, Jeg's etc. to carry the product, or at least make it available to customers on a per-order basis (like they do with a lot of specialty, "1 or 2 sold a year" items)

Finding people who are interested "off board" will be a challenge.
A lot of car enthusiasts I know don't even own a computer and never surf the net. They are a "Magazine, catalog and classifieds only" group of customers that will be difficult to reach. An ad in classic mustang magazines may be a good way to reach them.

 

[JackFish]

An ad in classic mustang magazines may be a good way to reach them.

And articles. Those magazines need content.

 

[xctasy]

....on the 2.3T board an engineer drew up a nice DOHC head for us....was gonna happen.....until he got a quote for casting them (along with intakes, valvecovers) and other needed parts (cams, sprockets, etc) in the end it was going to run him 20K a PIECE for two prototype heads. at that point with a limited market (guessing sales of maybe 200 units) it wasn't economical....esp since an existing SOHC head existed that flowe REAL well (ARCA race head) for only $3k

That's where Mike is way ahead of the game. Millions of I6's all over the world, a 4 million Mustangs, and the spin-off that there is no extra inventory to be tooled up.

The little 200 six is the worlds lightest cast iron block in its capacity. It is the most over engineered engine. It is able to fit into rat rods, pickups, Mustangs, and there is a supply of similar 144/170/187/188/200/221 from Argentina, 144/170/188/200/ and 250's Australia and 144/170/200/250 anywhere in the USA.

2V heads will dry up and so will the supply of ME/SP heads. There isn't a better prospect around for something that has brilliant headers, exhasts, transmissions, turbos, good aftermarket forged pistons which suit 2.3 OHC aftermarket rods.


The US 250, even though its rather rare, is an ox of an engine, and one of those heads on the US block with its ablity to take a long stroke crank better than the Aussie engine.

I can only see +++++++'es, and +++++++$$$$$$$ signs in the black!

Deano

 

[addo]

I wonder if Nizpro could break a few for Mike?

 

[Anonymous]

Doing my part trying to get all the mav/comet guys interested. Lots more 6's than 8's in these cars, falcons too. The US 250 is rare? I'm tripping over them all the time. Have two waiting for a good head.

 

[Stubby]

OK Guys,
The Scout Master in is coming out. I have seen similar post turn negative. Everyone has their own opinions and thats a good thing. The collective brain power of many is what the forum is all about. I would like to suggest that everyone who states their opinion go one step farther and offer a solution not just a potential problem. It is easy to see potential problems and they need to be addressed. We might even see something that AZ COUPE has overlooked but without offering a solution it just sounds negative.

 

[rbohm]

8) personally i think mike has a winner here, an di also think that mike would not have gotten into this venture without having done a little research first. the inline 6 market for parts is starting to grow as the people on this board spread the word about what can be done with these engines to make decent power on other boards. i personally have been touting these engines, and mikes website on a number of other boards that have alot of traffic on them, and yes i have been touting this board also. if we all do the same thing, or as many of us as possible, i feel that mikes endevour will be successful, and proably more than he is planning.

 

[PutPut6]

I think we should just give Mike the benefit of the doubt. We should wait until heads are made and results are in before we go nuts on opinions and what not. It's not like Mike is someone who just walked off the street and is trying to cash in on the fordsix board. He's been around longer than a lot of us and has done a LOT for the fordsix community. Regardless of what the head can or can't do, it's obviously going to be better than any other 200 head out there. Keep up the good work Mike

 

[wallaka]

Amen. , indeed.

 

[Anonymous]

We should wait until heads are made and results are in before we go nuts on opinions and what not.

Exactly. That's why I say stick to the facts and not spread any hearsay, rumors or speculations.

 

[blueroo]

Two things.

1) It will fit a 170, correct?

2) This is slighlty off topic, but will that killer looking efi setup on the SEMA motor become available?

 

[wallaka]

That's one of those Redline kits, right? They've been available for a while in Australia. Not so much in the US.

 

[AzCoupe]

The triple TBI induction was purchased from TWM Induction. The list price on the boddies and fuel rails is about $1500 (not including the injectors, air horns, or intake manifold). They are also sold by two companies in Australia for about the same price. The intake manifolds are no longer in production, but I have talked with Lynx and they will re-produce them for me when were ready. I am also looking into a billet TBI, that I ran into at SEMA, which is toutted to be the best available. Either way, I will be a distributor for one or both of these systems, along with the support items required.

Thanks for the support guys. I have done my homework, trust me. I've been working on this for three years, so its not just a flash in the pan project. I've hired some of the best in the business (design engineer, draftsman, pattern maker, and machine shop) all which have extended experience with aluminum heads. The foundry is one of the very best and their experience is unequaled. All have outstanding referances. Therefore I am quite confident, this coalition of experts will produce an outstanding product.