getting the motor ready for aluminium

[FalconSedanDelivery]

You can Drive it forever without vacuum advance , back in the day of Dual Points , THERE WAS NO VACUUM ADVANCE , why , because there is NO performance advantage in it , when adjusted correctly and its a street car you can squeak out some MPG's , BUT , if you have a drive ability issue its in the Mechanical part of the Curve , and should not be band aided by using the vac adv , I see this all the time on the net , oh it helps with part throttle response , NO , if it does its because like I said the mechanical part is not optimized , The factory used Vac adv for 2 reasons , MPG , and Emissions , NEVER BECAUSE IT MADE IT RUN BETTER , , No Race cars Use Them , OK enough on the subject .

 

[170-3tree]

Well ultimately a bum deal. I thought that my water pump went bad, because she just froze up out of nowhere. It was spinning freely last time I ran the car, and thought it was last time I was just cranking it to work the oil into the lifters. Went and got a new pump and prepared to instal it, but after putting it in, it froze too, the impeller was hitting on the exterior of the first bore.
Started doing some visual inspections, and found that the cylinder bore had expanded about halfway down. so.. that block is toast. went through thinking of what I did that could have caused this and couldn't think of anything at all.

I just gave it to age and maybe being bored out fatigued the metal or something, I have no clue what unless there was some insane detonation, but the head, piston and every other cylinder is completely perfect. Alas, either way, the engine is not worth putting more into to get that fixed if it is even possible. So finding a silver lining, of course, now I am going to quest for a 200 short block to rebuild. More power, seven mains, all good, except the wallet. Now i just need to refresh my knowledge on interchange to make this as quick and painless as possible.

 

[bubba22349]

The block could be sleeved on that cylinder

 

[170-3tree]

I figured I could, but since my dad can't totally deny that he had some part in the damage, he offered to take about 75% of the bill off my hands. And I see too many reasons to not touch that block again and WAY too many reasons that the 200 would be better. Not to say that I blamed him, but he offered.
And searching for a 200 would probably turn up more results and it was his idea to just go this route.

 

[Gene Fiore]

Hey, there is nothing wrong with another 30 cubic inches!!

 

[170-3tree]

That is very true. Between that and I have already been in that dang 170 twice, I want to put my time into somethin a bit more worthwhile.

My handbook says that all years after '68 had the dual pattern, but I thought that only lasted till 69-ish. Anyone like to point me in the right direction.

 

[bubba22349]

I think the dual pattern blocks stated in 66 the later blocks will have the bosses cast but they may not be drilled and tapped on later years. If you pick up the 200 with a bell housing and flywheel it won't mater if it's a dual pattern. If you can find a 250 block that would also work but you will for sure need to change the bell same as the SBF V8's.

 

[170-3tree]

Wouldn't that require the use of another transmission?

 

[rocklord]

If you are using the bellhousing for the 8.5 inch stepped flywheel, then you will have to use a different 3 spd transmission than your 170 has. A 250 uses a 3 spd transmission and bellhousing similar to the SBF. You're better off trying to find a 66+ 200 block since you'd be able to use the latter 9 inch flywheel and clutch.

 

[170-3tree]

Yeah, while I would love the 250, I can't afford to do a transmission swap right now. I'm just hoping to find a 200 with seven mains that I can just put in place of my 170. I plan on doin the t5 swap soon, but I think it would be easiest on this setup down the road.

 

[bubba22349]

If you plane to do a T5 soon, than it would be a direct bolt on to a 250 with a 5.0 T5 bell.

 

[170-3tree]

I know and it is really tempting as I have the hood clearance, but I actually found a 200 from a 69 mustang that seems like it is in decent shape. Just needs the machine work done to it.

 

[bubba22349]

That would be a good block

 

[170-3tree]

I thought so. Now that we have the ad out we have had a few good bites from craigslist. The one thing that gets me with the 250 swap is all the gremlins in the project, seems so straight forward, but I can't afford the little $50-100 here and there's that come up with that sort of thing with also needing all new machine work and whatnot.

Now I am just tryin to figure out the best way to get compression up on a 200. Flat tops might make it too high. There isn't goin to be a ton to mill, I don't want to bore more than absolutly necessary. I am giving serious thought to doing an offset grind on the crank to increase stroke a tiny bit, but not sure how that would work out yet.

I'm finding tons of silver lining though, if I raise compression to around 9.6-9.8 I will HAVE to get a more aggressive cam to reduce dynamic. And who doesn't like more power?

 

[bubba22349]

I like to keep the bores thicker with a .020 to .030 over up to .040 max unless you can have the block sonic checked so you know blocks bore thickness.

I am giving serious thought to doing an offset grind on the crank to increase stroke a tiny bit, but not sure how that would work out yet.

I think that's a great idea if you can have it done for a reasonable price.

If your using the Alum Head and you have a small chamber (CC) probably a piston with a dish would be the best and zero decked or add stroke so piston is .008 to .012 out the top depending on head gasket thickness you are using

 

[170-3tree]

I would never go over .040" on bore without deeply considering sleeving and then I might see what I could do about maybe a way larger bore.

I'm wondering how hard it would be to get the stroking done like that. Like finding a shop willing to do it around here. I cc'd my chambers around 50 cc I don't want to touch the head honestly, but I believe a flat piston gets me right at 9.8:1 compressionif I did the math right and depending on what bore I end up with. Has anyone really done a deck below piston on something that will be driven often? I fear it would be dangerous.

 

[bubba22349]

Yes it has been done

As an example lets say you are using a head gasket that's .050 thick a piston out the top .015 would give you a quench area of .035 than add the chamber volume to get your compression ratio. The early sixes had steel shim head gaskets of about .025 and piston down the hole some about .025 or 030 with a very small chamber head so if the head chamber were the same CC the first would give a little more compression. The ideal quench area is about .030 to .040 of course as you get tighter on quench than you also need to check valve clearance of cam you will use during your mock up to make sure you have the min clearance. On the stroke increases there were crankshaft companies that did that for stock class racers The Crankshaft Company in LA was one. In theory any crank regrinder could if they will take the extra time to set it up to grind the extra stroke don't know how much extra that would cost, some shops don't want to do anything custom like that though.

 

[MPGmustang]

i have .010 deck with 7cc stock dish pistons, 50.5-51cc chambers, felpro gasket, and .040 over bore, come out to 9.25CR on my 200ci.

your 50cc with dish stock dish pistons will give you 9.3CR if you have .040 over bore. honestly a good ratio

IMO, don't go higher than 9.5CR with the 264 cam, stay with what you got, install your nicer cam in the stock 200 and just run with it. you might need rings but you don't need to go all out. I think you'll still make enough power to be more than happy. IMO, go for the 76+ blocks if possible, less on the deck.

IIWIYS, I would get the 200, alum head on otherwise stock bottom (except ur 264 cam) bolt it up and just run until that bottom goes (remember they're bullet proof). when the trans goes is when I would swap the t5, but not before then. sure you won't have OD on the road, but in town, I'm always in drive, 4th gear, 5th is the OD and I only use that to maintain speed @ 60+, passing I'm still in 4th everywhere else (a rear end change can fix that), remember your 3rd gear is the same as my 4th.

on the other hand, I know your try'n to save a buck here and there, but you're changing to many things already, by the time you're finished the 200 with the t-5, you'll say to your self you could have had a 250 with the t-5. it will be closer in cost than what you think. put the car on blocks, yank the trans, find your t5 and 5.0 bell housing with proper clutch/FW setup, bolt it to your 250 block with alum head running the 264 cam, and roll with that when it's finished. you will have the same amount of down time, and money spent on either project when adding the t5, and you'll have a 25% power boost over the 200. that's my 2 cents worth.

Good luck

 

[170-3tree]

actually, I would like someone to run numbers through a calculator real quick for me. I did this yesterday and found that the static compression was around 8.3, but did it just now and it turned up almost 11:1

EDIT: Suppose if you enter it as a dome it raises a bit. OOPS this gives me 9.02

I don't know which one I did wrong, but I did something wrong. I probably need to figure that out before I commit to anything to raise compression.

I used stock numbers for a 66 200, but used 50cc's for the head and .05 for the gasket.

 

[bubba22349]

Rough guess think it should be at about 8.5 for a 170 with a .050 gasket loose about a 1/4 point with thicker gasket.

On your edit for the 200 and smaller CC's head is about right