All Small Six Help! Did I just screw up my new build?

[Frank]

the pushrods should also be turning slowly I assume that is also true of hyd.

Yes.

 

[WillingnessLimp]

Took some pictures of the internals tonight.
Does everything look okay or would be any concerns?
The one of concern was cylinder 1 and engine only had about 20-30 miles on it, half of which it was running retarded

Ordered all parts, as get to it to assemble and check everything, I'll post an update.

 

[WillingnessLimp]

Here are cylinders 1 to 3

 

[Frank]

Good pics! I can never get those scope cameras to do what I'm trying to do. . .
Some intake valves show oily, it could indicate poor oil control in the valve guides. Pistons are pretty carboned up- The engine is too fresh to judge oil control yet, so not assuming premature conclusions. Looks ok for not broken in IMO. There's no physical damage, that's the main thing at this point!

 

[DON]

I find it odd that there is so much difference in carbon build up and burn off
Maybe just from not being broke in yet?

 

[drag-200stang]

The cap on the front of the valve cover should be vented, is it?
Look to see if the valve seals look ok. What style did you use?

 

[WillingnessLimp]

Good pics! I can never get those scope cameras to do what I'm trying to do. . .
Some intake valves show oily, it could indicate poor oil control in the valve guides. Pistons are pretty carboned up- The engine is too fresh to judge oil control yet, so not assuming premature conclusions. Looks ok for not broken in IMO. There's no physical damage, that's the main thing at this point!

Yeah, I didn’t expect to see so much build up for such a short running period…
It looks like in cylinder 3 the valve is oily, you are right.
I think I’m gonna steer away right now from pulling the head off. Will fix the rocker arm, check that oil gets everywhere in the rocker arms and run it like this for a little. After maybe 100-200 miles will look with the scope again and see if there are any changes inside.
The only thing that I didn’t do (and kinda regret it) - check the valves for leakage when I got the head from the shop.

@drag-200stang yes, cap is vented and PCV goes into oil catch can and then in a port under carb (I tapped into carb adapter). As for the seals, machine shop used umbrella style.

 

[Frank]

That's a good plan.

As soon as you're satisfied it's running good again don't baby it. Do WOT pulls up thru the gears to a moderate rpm every few minutes.

 

[WillingnessLimp]

Might be a stupid question, but when I check compression in cylinders, is it better to do on warm engine or cold is okay?

 

[pmuller9]

Might be a stupid question, but when I check compression in cylinders, is it better to do on warm engine or cold is okay?

Either way is ok. Warm may give higher readings but you are looking for cylinder pressure relative to each other.
Do the test with wide open throttle and all the spark plugs out.

 

[drag-200stang]

I like to let it pump up 3 or 4 pumps, with all plugs out

 

[WillingnessLimp]

So I was just thinking over why my rocker arm gave up and decided to double check all of my push rods at work (I have a nice surface here lol) and all of the push rods end up being ever so slightly bent. Not that you can really see it with you eye or when rolling them fast...but when I did it slowly and just let them roll with slight push, you can see and hear how they are turning and that there is a point, where they were starting to have a resistance to roll, almost like rolling over a very small bump (It's not surface bump, as Ive tried to roll them in different areas of the countertop).
Now I assume that the geometry wasn't right and pushrods are a little bit too long. I have this Adjustable Pushrod, but I think it will be a bit short to get the right lengths. I assume that I'm not gonna need to shorten it too much and can probably find some in stock options at Smith Bros. But the ones they have is a ball only on one side - would that matter?

As for the pushrods - I got them all new (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7084304&cc=1332874&pt=5648&jsn=8) and same for the lifters (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=212672&cc=1332874&pt=5548&jsn=8&optionchoice=0-0-0-1).
I can't find tho correct info for what preload is on the lifters I got. Goggle says 0.002" to 0.004" and at summit they said its 0.020 to 0.060

Is this would a correct procedure to measure the lengths of the pushrod?
1. Bring the piston to TDC
2. Place adjustable pushrod in the lifter and snug fit the rocker arm assembly
3. Adjust the pushrod to almost zero lash and torque the rocker arm assembly. Adjust pushrod to zero lash.
4. Remove the adjustable pushrod and measure, adding the pre load for hydraulic lifter.

OR

Would it be better to find an adjustable rocker arm assembly? I think I found one kinda close (will be shipping it anyway), but its used and I got a mention in this post before to steer away from used rocker arm assembly...

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[WillingnessLimp]

Also, do I need to consider higher lift from the cam vs stock lift?

 

[pmuller9]

The wrong geometry usually doesn't bend pushrods.
Valve spring coil bind is the most common reason.

What valve springs did you use and what was the installed height of the springs?

 

[WillingnessLimp]

The wrong geometry usually doesn't bend pushrods.
Valve spring coil bind is the most common reason.

What valve springs did you use and what was the installed height of the springs?

I got springs from Clay Smith:

Valve Spring Set (Single Spring 5,000 Rpm and Under)

Clay Smith Cams Inline 6 Valve Spring Set is designed to retro fit on to a stock head without any machine work.

claysmithcams.com

I just measured right now, the height from the block to retainer is 1.87 inches.
Fully under load now is 1.63 inches.

Am I looking at the right numbers and calculating it correctly?
Per post #53 valve lift should be about 0.420”, when according to the measurements I did (and I’m not sure if it should measure that way, when it’s all seated on the head) I only got 0.240”?

Here is a picture of the spring under load, I don’t think coil bind was the case - still a lot to go

 

[aussie7mains]

?????? What happened to the rest?

 

[WillingnessLimp]

?????? What happened to the rest?

Just running it on 3 intake and 3 exhaust valves… JK

I don’t have a rocker arm for the first exhaust valve. So just mocked it with 6 pushrods for the measurements and to check that I don’t get coil bind.
Exhaust and intake events have the same lift on my cam

 

[aussie7mains]

Just running it on 3 intake and 3 exhaust valves… JK

I don’t have a rocker arm for the first exhaust valve. So just mocked it with 6 pushrods for the measurements and to check that I don’t get coil bind.
Exhaust and intake events have the same lift on my cam

No i meant the rest of the valve lift, some 6mm of it? Lifters not full of oil?

 

[pmuller9]

ht from the block to retainer is 1.87 inches.
Fully under load now is 1.63 inches.

Am I looking at the right numbers and calculating it correctly?
Per post #53 valve lift should be about 0.420”, when according to the measurements I did (and I’m not sure if it should measure that way, when it’s all seated on the head) I only got 0.240”?

Here is a picture of the spring under load, I don’t think coil bind was the case - still a lot to go

The valve lift should be .420"
Check the lift at another cylinder.

 

[Frank]

I got springs from Clay Smith:

Valve Spring Set (Single Spring 5,000 Rpm and Under)

Clay Smith Cams Inline 6 Valve Spring Set is designed to retro fit on to a stock head without any machine work.

claysmithcams.com

I just measured right now, the height from the block to retainer is 1.87 inches.
Fully under load now is 1.63 inches.

Am I looking at the right numbers and calculating it correctly?
Per post #53 valve lift should be about 0.420”, when according to the measurements I did (and I’m not sure if it should measure that way, when it’s all seated on the head) I only got 0.240”?

Here is a picture of the spring under load, I don’t think coil bind was the case - still a lot to go

If you've hydraulic lifters you can't get a measure of the open valve lift, the internals of the lifter are squeezed down to bottom by the force of the valve spring.
Coil bind is not a factor, ample space there for more lift.