JD Perf. Double Roller Timing Chain

[Lazy JW]

I see now what they did.

You can indeed do as you have suggested: use the "dot" on the cam gear and whichever mark you desire on the crank gear.

Look carefully at the relationship of each mark on the crank gear to the tooth above it. It is readily apparent that the position of the notch to the tooth changes incrementally as you go around the gear. This will indeed give an advance/retard depending on which notch you select.

You may use the +4 notch on the crank gear with the "dot" on the cam gear exactly as you said earlier and this "should" advance the cam 4º.

THE ONLY WAY TO KNOW FOR CERTAIN IS TO PROPERLY DEGREE THE CAM!
Joe

 

[Ecovanner1963]

SO, as I said before, I can match the Cam gear dot, up with the mark on the CRANK Gear that indicates 4 degrees advance? YES or NO?

 

[addo]

It indicates a theoretical four degrees.

Many of us prefer strangers to pay by cash rather than cheque, however...

 

[mustangsilly]

If all you want to know is "how do the marks line up" then yes, the 4 deg mark on the crank gear should align with the dot on the cam gear. This gives you the theoretical advance the cam was ground for.

 

[Ecovanner1963]

And that was the question I was asking, THANKS!

 

[Lazy JW]

SO, as I said before, I can match the Cam gear dot, up with the mark on the CRANK Gear that indicates 4 degrees advance? YES or NO?

YES!

And if you are lucky it will actually be correct :roll: You are dealing with a camshaft made by one company, a gearset made by another company, and a crankshaft made by yet ANOTHER company. Each of those outfits have their own Quality Control program (or lack thereof) and within said QC program there will always be a percentage of production that falls OUTSIDE of the tolerance range one way or another (this is typically charted by some sort of Standard Deviation method).

It is quite possible, and indeed happens, that you can have enough "tolerance stack-up" to end up being WAY out from where you think you are even though you assembled it "per instructions". The process of "blueprinting" is merely a method of double-checking everything to ensure that the parts stack up where you truly want them.

Do you feel lucky today?
Joe

 

[Ecovanner1963]

Well with the cam ALREADY degreed in, and my CONSTANT REITERATION of the SAME question, and now getting a CONFIRMED YES, I feel as I have Checked, Double Checked, and Triple Checked, So YES, I feel CONFIDENT, not sure LUCK has anything to do with it. THANK YOU ALL SOOOOOOO MUCH For the feedback!!!

 

[Lazy JW]

I certainly don't consider my answer to be a "confirmed" yes; rather it is a "qualified" yes. Meaning IF, and that is a VERY BIG IF everything is within tolerance then all should be well.

You have done absolutely nothing that verifies any of this.
Carry on,
Joe

 

[drag-200stang]

I am not familiar with anything earlier than '66 and up 200's and '70 170's so I can't say for sure. The cam spacer looks too wide, does not look right to me. It may be an early thing but I wouldn't think so. Please check carefully.

Does anybody know for sure if the early ones are different?

 

[Bort62]

I will point out that this motor seems to have much more problems w/ variance in cam timing accuracy than others I have worked on.

I read this thread backwards, and in that way it is pretty humorous - poor guy is asking the same question over and over and no one is understanding him

Long story short, if you assume the cam is ground correctly, then yes - your method for setting it up 4* advanced is correct.

What everyone here is trying to caution you is not to assume the cam is ground correctly.

Depending on your time frame and what you are trying to do with the motor, I might just not worry about it and see what happens. It won't break anything if it's a few degrees out.

 

[Bobscoupe]

Bort you are not supposed to be the voice of reason on the forum you are supposed to "stir the pot." Get back in role.

 

[Lazy JW]

.....
I read this thread backwards, and in that way it is pretty humorous - poor guy is asking the same question over and over and no one is understanding him ...

Amazing how a photo can clear up so much mis-communication, eh?

 

[Bort62]

Well, even without the photo (most photo's dont load on the computers here at work) It was still clear to me what he was asking - but I did have the benifit of reading everyone elses attempts in reverse to clarify it.

And yeah Bob, sorry. I'll try to be more inflammatory next time.

 

[drag-200stang]

Who cares what the cam timing is if the engine is going to get trashed because the cam spacer-retainer is wrong.

So does anybody else think this is wrong?

I can see my posts but sometimes I wonder if they show up on the forum.

 

[Ecovanner1963]

What do you mean WRONG spacer retainer? The picture show the cam WITHOUT this piece on. It Broke, because it had a broken bolt on one side (my doing) and only had one bolt holding it in. I put it back together knowing that I was going to take it right back apart after I started it. I wanted to hear it run at Dot to Dot seting, to see how that felt/ran, then take it apart again to advance it the recommended 4 degree's ( this after the cam was degreed). Call me curious but I wanted to know the difference. SO, I thought, well just to be able to drive it around the block, then take it back apart, the retainer will be ok with only one bolt. Well it held (KINDA) it broke into two nice pieces, three-quarters of which was still bolted to the block. This however forced the removal of the oil pan to retrieve the other piece (which fell off DURING removal of the cover) and make DOUBLE SURE there was NO metal pieces or anything occluding the pickup. All done now, but still waiting for the NEW retainer in the mail.

 

[drag-200stang]

When I referred to the spacer-retainer I meant the system of cam retention. The spacer goes behind the cam dowel pin inside bevel towards journal. Then the dowel pin, then cam retention plate, then cam sprocket.

In your pictures it looks like the spacer is as large as the cam journal which isn't right as far as I know. Like I said earlier, maybe its an early thing. I asked for verification whether this looks right to other Ford sixers, there's been plenty of engines messed up because of this.

 

[addo]

I've not heard of a retainer actually breaking before. That's odd.

My FSM has an illustration labelled A1395-D (Chapter 8-2) showing the cam exploded. Left to right :Camshaft rear bearing bore plug 6266, (bearing) 6263, (bearing) 6270, Camshaft 6250, (bearing) 6267, SPACER (sic), (bearing) 6261, thrust plate 6269, washer 34806-S, bolt 20326-S, timing chain 6268, camshaft sprocket 6256, washer 6278, bolt 371643-S

I'm wondering is somehow the end float (1-7 thou preferred) came up wrong, causing the spacer to push against the retainer (12-15 foot-pounds torque; pretty low really).