New Engine Build

[Mustang_Geezer]

Heres the time slips in order. My 1st test & tune pass was just to get everything warmed up so it wasnt a "all out" pass.

Friday night,

60' 1.95 1/8 mile 9.03 @ 76.17 1/4 mile 14.24 @ 93.07
60' 1.92 1/8 mile 8.94 @ 76.42 1/4 mile 14.14 @ 93.45

On this last pass I tried to leave @ 3000 rpms and wheel hopped HARD on the line, let off and got into it again.

60'2.08 1/8 mile 9.18 @ 76.28 1/4 mile 14.39 @ 93.31 This pass was where I broke somthing?

It started raining after that so we left with no changes on the car.

Saturday was a lot nicer and cooler (low 70's).

Heres the passes in order.

60' 2.03 1/8 mile 9.22 @ 75.17 1/4 mile 14.51 @ 91.74
60' 2.05 1/8 mile 9.24 @ 75.03 1/4 mile 14.55 @ 91.56
60' 2.07 1/8 mile 9.28 @ 75.64 1/4 mile 14.55 @ 91.78
60' 2.08 1/8 mile 9.32 @ 75.53 1/4 mile 14.57 @ 92.32


Later,

Doug

 

[wsa111]

Doug, if the problem is definately converter related, i would ask for my money back & go to another vendor.
Heck they run 408" engines with high stall converters on the C4 trans with no problems.
The possibility is you may have to convert to a 26 spline input shaft in the trans.
I know the early C4's had the 24 spline. Good luck, but you better get your wallet out for something reliable. Bill

 

[xctasy]

Thanks for all the input guys!

I didnt know that the Aussies made a adapter. I thought that the I6 and V8 c-4's were the same except for the differant bellhousing??

Thanks,

Doug

No way. According to my sources, the V8 ones have more clutches, different governer settings. The 3.3 I6 C4's have tiny torque converter bolt pattern dating back to the first I6's for the 200, less clutches than the v8C4's, and are case fill.

They won't absorb 600 hp with just re kit like a good pan fill 164 teeth C4 or C5 will. The Aussies only made the adaptor for one and a half years, its rare as, but it allows you to bolt a proper big 302 C4 Cleveland/truck spec gearbox behind a little 200, and use the 157 or 160 teeth 10.5" converters, which gives you a huge range of reliable, hard core V8 spec torque converters. The smaller C4 stuff is just reprofiled Pinto spinners with the fins reset, and unless the parts are up to spec, its probaby okay for a turbo 2.3 where the torque is shock loaded at higher revs, but your I6 sits at 3000 to 5500, constantly loading up about 230 foot pounds without a rest in your I6. Its a constant load, working that converter 289 V8 style, harder than if it was flying around behind a turbo 2.3 in a light Fox.

Anyway, looks like your Converter suppliers will help you out. A free market win to stop you suffering loss.

Hang in there. If you change your mind or hsve trouble, I can send you some better parts...

 

[chad]

x2c -
"The smaller C4 stuff"

I think the Bronco had the C4 starting in '73 as option for the V8 only (last 5 yrs of the vehicle production).
I have a '77 C4 from one.
What would I need to do to rebuild it (been in the weather several yrs, tq converter was stolen) for a stock '69 250 that is 30%hwy/70% off road, 33X9.50 tires, 4.11 gear, sno plow, etc...
Want the reverse manuel valve body, will look to low rev use, non tire spinnin. Have a flex plate on back of a '75 250 in the yard.
Thanks much...

EDIT: o0OOPPps, 8^0
sorry just realized I'm jackin the thread, I'll start another one, got excited

 

[FalconSedanDelivery]

Keep in mind , MOST manual Reverse Valve-bodys have NO braking in first , in other words if you downshift from 2nd to first it will freewheel , not hold back,

 

[chad]

Keep in mind , MOST manual Reverse Valve-bodys have NO braking in first , in other words if you downshift from 2nd to first it will freewheel , not hold back,

Oh, interesting, was not aware of that and AM interested in 'transmission braking" (I believe, unless the transfer case or other component beside the brakes supplies that?).
I read up on a C4 rebuild, it did not inc the whole system tho (how to make the valve body more positive shifting into each 'gear' was the explained mod). You say "most" are free wheeling in 1st gear. How would one avoid that?

Thanks,

 

[FalconSedanDelivery]

there are some manual valvebodys that have engine breaking in first , You just have to ask before you buy and not assume as MOST do not! ,

 

[CoupeBoy]

The Aussies only made the adaptor for one and a half years, its rare as, but it allows you to bolt a proper big 302 C4 Cleveland/truck spec gearbox behind a little 200, and use the 157 or 160 teeth 10.5" converters, which gives you a huge range of reliable, hard core V8 spec torque converters.

Any chance you have specs on that unit? (the adapter plate) Bolt spacings/diameters/starter hole size/plate spacing. What did they do (if anything) to get a v8 flexplate onto the i6 crank? Is there another adapter?

-ron

 

[xctasy]

The Aussies only made the adaptor for one and a half years, its rare as, but it allows you to bolt a proper big 302 C4 Cleveland/truck spec gearbox behind a little 200, and use the 157 or 160 teeth 10.5" converters, which gives you a huge range of reliable, hard core V8 spec torque converters.

Any chance you have specs on that unit? (the adapter plate) Bolt spacings/diameters/starter hole size/plate spacing. What did they do (if anything) to get a v8 flexplate onto the i6 crank? Is there another adapter?

-ron

Measure your X-flow...ever since 1966, the Aussie blocks had the sarter motor mount casting moved out to suit the 160 teeth flexplate, rahter than the US 132/136/138 200 item. So you can't reverse engineer the later wide Aussie block to fit the US 200 dimensions as the block casting at the starter is lots wider.


The common Aussie ring gear and torque converter bolt pattern is the 160 teeth item and it fits the stock US C4 157 teeth flexplate converter from a 240/300 Ford I6. The 157 and 160 are interchangable with stock 3 bolt starters, as the pitch is the same. The 160 is the early 221/260/289 5 bolt flexplate ring gear, so replacements are availble ex USA. All tall deck blocks use the SBF 3" six bolt crank pilot. The Argentine based 188/221used the US 200 2.75" crank pilot.

The Aussie cast alloy C9 bell housing was the link between the Windsor 157 teeth C4 and the 160 teeth Aussie flexplate.

See the old posts...it just allows the small deck 144/170/200 to fit up the heavyier duty medium deck 188/221 and tall deck 200/250 C9 bellhousing to any C4. It allows stock 9.75" spacing 157 teeth V8 spec torque converters to be thrown at any US 200. All you need is a 2.75" 157 or 160 teeth Aussie flexplate, the adaptor, the C9 bellhousing, and you've got a V8 spec trans all the way through.

See viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24508&start=0

The 1965 XP Falcon 170/200 block plate is very rare, and just links the early 2.77 bolt pattern 1960 to 1983 US 144/170/200 block to any of your Aussie Log, 2v or X-flow engines


post 1966 XR 170/200 (short deck 7.803-7.808" 2.8/3.3 liter with wide Aussie block)
1968 XT/1969 XW 188/221 (medium deck 8.425" 3.1/3.6 liter with wide Aussie block)
1971 XY/1972 XA/1973 XB (tall 9.38"deck 200/ wide Aussie block)
1976 XC/1979 XD/1982 XE/1985 XF tall 9.38" deck Cross flow with wide Aussie block)

 

[wsa111]

All the trans info is well and good, but the problem is in the converter.
Doug just needs a decent converter.
Tony-aka crosley works at a trans shop, maybe he can help you.
How about Phoenix trans in texas, they can build you the converter for you.
FSD has used the pinto converter, but that is probably not compatible with the six cylinder flex plate.

 

[Crosley]

The converter in my Falcon has a Pinto converter ''top''. That provides me with more RPM stall with my mild built 200 CID engine. Pinto tops have sharper angles to the fins. Allows higher RPM stall and slightly more torque multiplication

The ''top'' of the converter as I am talking , is the half of the converter that has the trans pump hub on it (trans side) . The engine side is referred to as the "bottom"

 

[Mustang_Geezer]

Tony,

I think he said mine has a high stall "pump" which is the housing facing the transmission I believe?? and a Ford Ranger Stator. He also said there was somthing inside that they had to shave down with a lathe to get it to stall so high. I took a picture of it.

I got my rebuilt converter back Friday and got it all put back together yesterday. Gonna drive it to work tomorrow and see how it runs.

Our last couple of test & tunes have been canceled due to rain and I'm hoping for some good weather on Saturday so I can go back and see how it runs. When I had it running yesterday I double checked the base timing and the advance (still 34 degrees total) and I'm going to recheck the float levels which is a pain on these new Holleys.

Still, the only thing I can think that would slow my car down so much in the 60' times and the 1/8th mileis a bad converter.

We'll find out soon....

Later,

Doug

 

[FalconSedanDelivery]

What Did they find ( in the converter ) curious , Get some M/T Et Drags ( or Drag Radials ) and I have to agree , 60ft is always were you want to apply your efforts to get the most results on ET reduction , Good Luck

 

[79granada]

something my uncle used to do when needing a budget drag tire he would buy used hoosier d40 tires off the dirt track guys and use those on his grand national just throwing that out there sometimes theyd give them to him when they got too hard to use for dirt and if i remember right they were DOT aproved

 

[Mustang_Geezer]

What Did they find ( in the converter ) curious , Get some M/T Et Drags ( or Drag Radials ) and I have to agree , 60ft is always were you want to apply your efforts to get the most results on ET reduction , Good Luck

No broken parts..... Had a bit of a discussion with the builder and I guess they decided to rebuild it again and charge me $221.00. 500 miles and 50-55 passes on it since it was built in June.

Good news is it runs and launches fine now. Just waiting for a nice weekend so I can go to a test & tune to look at a time slip. I CHANGED NOTHING BUT THE CONVERTER. So It will be a direct comparison to how it used to run before it broke IMO.

Bad news is what happened??? Was it just bad luck?? or is it going to crap out again after 50 or 60 passes??? Getting tired of pulling the tranny out after the 3rd time this summer! It wheel hopped bad more than once. Is this bad for a converter? Did I break it?

Later,

Doug

 

[Mustang_Geezer]

something my uncle used to do when needing a budget drag tire he would buy used hoosier d40 tires off the dirt track guys and use those on his grand national just throwing that out there sometimes theyd give them to him when they got too hard to use for dirt and if i remember right they were DOT aproved

IF I continue to race it I'll be running 235/60/15 Goodyear Eagle Drag Radial and some new 4:10 gears. A lot of the guys are running them in the street class at 131. If I decide not to race it anymore I'm going to go with a new set of BFG Radial T/A's 235/60/15 and stay with my 3:80 gears. My current tires are 225/60/15's.

 

[Mustang_Geezer]

New rebuilt 10" hi stall torque converter (3700 rpms)

New Allstar Performance V8 Aluminum radiator. No more overheating when I beat on it! Hardest thing was fabbing the brackets for the bottom of the radiator. Hoses are still on the right sides and I was lucky enough to find a upper hose that was a perfect fit and used a flex hose on the bottom.

No trans cooler in the radiator, I use a seperate tranny cooler behind the grill.

Later,

Doug

 

[Mustang_Geezer]

I must say I'm getting tired of the image restrictions.....

After 30 minutes of work I'm at 595x443 and it still wont let me post a picture of the radiator....

Your images may only be up to 450 pixels high.
Your images may only be up to 600 pixels wide.

I guess you'll have to use your imagination on the last picture!

One last try...A wee tiny little pic of 500xsumthin

Your images may only be up to 450 pixels high.
Your images may only be up to 600 pixels wide.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/ ... IM2286.jpg

 

[JackFish]

Mine was rebuilt to about 2200rpm.
I can't even imagine trying to drive around with anything higher...

 

[xctasy]

I must say I'm getting tired of the image restrictions.....

After 30 minutes of work I'm at 595x443 and it still wont let me post a picture of the radiator....

Your images may only be up to 450 pixels high.
Your images may only be up to 600 pixels wide.

I guess you'll have to use your imagination on the last picture!

One last try...A wee tiny little pic of 500xsumthin

Your images may only be up to 450 pixels high.
Your images may only be up to 600 pixels wide.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/ ... IM2286.jpg

Been there, done that.

The solution is a bit tedius, but Addo and Asa showed me how. "Just" run the main image copied twice, then spend time changing each image to thumbnail.


The rule is there is fix total cost of the powerboard package. Although a real bear, it fixes the time taken to start up each page.



Then they can be as big as you please. Two things. You have to save periodically, and secondly, you have to have no one else within 50 feet, becasue if you get confused with all the image syntax, you'll swear like a mad man.