That's a long way for the exhaust to go before it gets to the turbo. It loses a lot of heat and a lot of velocity in that distance. That's why most turbos are mounted so close to the engine - to retain that energy.
66Sprint6":3lxy0fvx said:
i already beat you to it, Xecute is workin up a design, and Harrie (and possibly 40bob) are gonna see if they can work one up
dunno what the status of that lil project is though
here, check this thread
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=
Ranger,
Problem with the Turbo is that while the compression doesn't heat up the charge more, the proximity to exhaust gases causes teh turbo to heat up and in turn heats up the charge. I've got pictures of my Volvo Turbo Red hot...and that definitely heats up the charge air.
Slade
Problem with the Turbo is that while the compression doesn't heat up the charge more, the proximity to exhaust gases causes teh turbo to heat up and in turn heats up the charge. I've got pictures of my Volvo Turbo Red hot...and that definitely heats up the charge air.
Slade
Just for the record, I don't like turbos. But I love horsepower. The Mag and Turbo centres down here do a roaring trade reparing fried Bubble Gummers egos, and fixing there burn out hairdriers. What absolutely sickens me is how much there Subaru RS Turbos,SVX's STi, WRX's cost to fix the water to air charge coolers and transmissions, clutches, exhasts, turbos....screwing that boost controller up to 14 pounds does a heap of damage with 300 geegees. 
Envy, I guess...
My friend Rosco, he with the 2V 250 engine, has a spare 221 he's dropping off soon. The critical dimensions of the cast header are similar between both sides of the ocean, 144, 170,188,200,221,250. There are differences in the siamese section between cylinders 3 and 4, I think, but the rest looks the same.
Out with the modling clay and off to Farrum Engineering. They do SGI crank castings for 215 Buick V8's, GM 3800's and lots of work for ships, water pumps and short run specials.
I think ant one who uses tube steel or such like has got the right idea, but the durability aspect is going to be a nightmare. The heat soak, the need to have slipper joints and a means of letting the turbo be supported in a very hot environment are wories to my feeble mind.
With the stock exhast manifold prone to the odd crack, I'd be reluctant to weld a T03/04 spec plate to it. Ductile iron is the best option, in my opinion. There is some give in it, and the heat sink it provides allows the exhast to soak up some of the radiant heat instead of spreading it forth.
Floridaphatman, he's da man. On your side of the world, and a foundary man!
Oh, the joys of living in a cold hole like Dunedin. Cast iron foundaries abound!
:roll: That reminds me, I'm supposed to cut up my alloy head for Floridaphatman. Have to add that to my list!
Envy, I guess... My friend Rosco, he with the 2V 250 engine, has a spare 221 he's dropping off soon. The critical dimensions of the cast header are similar between both sides of the ocean, 144, 170,188,200,221,250. There are differences in the siamese section between cylinders 3 and 4, I think, but the rest looks the same.
Out with the modling clay and off to Farrum Engineering. They do SGI crank castings for 215 Buick V8's, GM 3800's and lots of work for ships, water pumps and short run specials.
I think ant one who uses tube steel or such like has got the right idea, but the durability aspect is going to be a nightmare. The heat soak, the need to have slipper joints and a means of letting the turbo be supported in a very hot environment are wories to my feeble mind.
With the stock exhast manifold prone to the odd crack, I'd be reluctant to weld a T03/04 spec plate to it. Ductile iron is the best option, in my opinion. There is some give in it, and the heat sink it provides allows the exhast to soak up some of the radiant heat instead of spreading it forth.
Floridaphatman, he's da man. On your side of the world, and a foundary man!
Oh, the joys of living in a cold hole like Dunedin. Cast iron foundaries abound!
:roll: That reminds me, I'm supposed to cut up my alloy head for Floridaphatman. Have to add that to my list!
A
Anonymous
Guest
posted this in another thread going round but its not to hard to cut and paste. lol
hey all,
everyone has their own different opinions on how to go about doing a turbo exhuast manifold, but i'll speak from experience on my 32 psi 740hp i6
now use steam pipe sections like in the photo's but only get ones that are either same size as your exhaust ports or juuuust slightly bigger. no matter how much hp you have (my own has 37.6mm id piping and the ports are 36mm in diameter). as this is the key to fast boost response
one thing you do is get it either spray painted in hi-temp paint or ceramic coated then wrapp it well in heat wrapping then put a heat sheild over the manifold and turbine housing
one thing to try to always do is ti keep the manifold and the turbine as hot as posible as hotter gasses are thinner and will flow ahelova lot faster.
one thing i dont like in that website is the collector they use. having all 4 pipes arive into a big open chamber gives the exhaust gasses time to expand and slow down. what you want to do is keep everything as small as posible (but so small that it impeades flow). so run all pipes into the turbo mounting flange, and not into a colector.
i personly dropped 500rpm spool time in going form a open collector to a closed collector.
now we have an advantage in runing a i6 (particuklary engines with the 153624 foring order (ford i6)) what i have done in my own manifold is probably the best way to make a manifold for the ford i6.
i'll call cylinder1 port1 and cylinder2 port2 etc...
what you do is run port2 from the head all the way thru to the collector.
have port2 come out from the head 50mm then use a long radius 90* bend but make it so it ends up going on a 45* angle (pointing down towards the exhaust). add a short bed to flatten it out. then run it along till it get directly below the turbo colletor. then run a 90 degree bend heading straight up toward the turbo collector.
run port1 in a way that it joins into port2's piping on the bend that leveled out port 2.
run port3 in a way so that it also joins in to port2 piping at the bend section that goes back up into the turbo flange.
ports 456 are identical- port5 to turbo 6 joins in 5 on second bend 3 joins in 5 on last bend.
do not step up the size of the piping.
as the firing order only allows exhaust 'pops' happens once every 240 degree's of the cranks rotation. so the exhaust pulses are constantly hitting the turbine.
this set up works exceptoinaly well on split pulse (twin scroll) exhaust housings but will work well (and if not better then any other way of manifold construction) on single scroll housings(normal turbo designs)
i have pics and some sketches of the manifold if anyones interested. just tell me how to post them up and i will. but will not post my own pics up (its still underconstruction)
do not use stasinless steel just stick to mild steel as it retains heat very well and is more forgiving to thermal expansion. stainless steel is not and thus leads to cracking.
aw well get to it!!! boost them ford sixes (they just love it!!!)
cheers.joe.
ps. running a cross over pipe to the turbo on the other side is a bad bad bad idea. keep the primarys as small and as short as possible.
for your carb set up run it on the exhaust side then a intercooler (front mount) then build a very small plenum chamber over the carburetor (make the plenum fully enclose the carby.- so unbolt the carb, put a tray underneath it and put an encloser around the carb.)
still efi and turbo is better.
cheers again.joe.
hey all,
everyone has their own different opinions on how to go about doing a turbo exhuast manifold, but i'll speak from experience on my 32 psi 740hp i6
now use steam pipe sections like in the photo's but only get ones that are either same size as your exhaust ports or juuuust slightly bigger. no matter how much hp you have (my own has 37.6mm id piping and the ports are 36mm in diameter). as this is the key to fast boost response
one thing you do is get it either spray painted in hi-temp paint or ceramic coated then wrapp it well in heat wrapping then put a heat sheild over the manifold and turbine housing
one thing to try to always do is ti keep the manifold and the turbine as hot as posible as hotter gasses are thinner and will flow ahelova lot faster.
one thing i dont like in that website is the collector they use. having all 4 pipes arive into a big open chamber gives the exhaust gasses time to expand and slow down. what you want to do is keep everything as small as posible (but so small that it impeades flow). so run all pipes into the turbo mounting flange, and not into a colector.
i personly dropped 500rpm spool time in going form a open collector to a closed collector.
now we have an advantage in runing a i6 (particuklary engines with the 153624 foring order (ford i6)) what i have done in my own manifold is probably the best way to make a manifold for the ford i6.
i'll call cylinder1 port1 and cylinder2 port2 etc...
what you do is run port2 from the head all the way thru to the collector.
have port2 come out from the head 50mm then use a long radius 90* bend but make it so it ends up going on a 45* angle (pointing down towards the exhaust). add a short bed to flatten it out. then run it along till it get directly below the turbo colletor. then run a 90 degree bend heading straight up toward the turbo collector.
run port1 in a way that it joins into port2's piping on the bend that leveled out port 2.
run port3 in a way so that it also joins in to port2 piping at the bend section that goes back up into the turbo flange.
ports 456 are identical- port5 to turbo 6 joins in 5 on second bend 3 joins in 5 on last bend.
do not step up the size of the piping.
as the firing order only allows exhaust 'pops' happens once every 240 degree's of the cranks rotation. so the exhaust pulses are constantly hitting the turbine.
this set up works exceptoinaly well on split pulse (twin scroll) exhaust housings but will work well (and if not better then any other way of manifold construction) on single scroll housings(normal turbo designs)
i have pics and some sketches of the manifold if anyones interested. just tell me how to post them up and i will. but will not post my own pics up (its still underconstruction)
do not use stasinless steel just stick to mild steel as it retains heat very well and is more forgiving to thermal expansion. stainless steel is not and thus leads to cracking.
aw well get to it!!! boost them ford sixes (they just love it!!!)
cheers.joe.
ps. running a cross over pipe to the turbo on the other side is a bad bad bad idea. keep the primarys as small and as short as possible.
for your carb set up run it on the exhaust side then a intercooler (front mount) then build a very small plenum chamber over the carburetor (make the plenum fully enclose the carby.- so unbolt the carb, put a tray underneath it and put an encloser around the carb.)
still efi and turbo is better.
cheers again.joe.
What the picture of Ak Miller's setup doesn't show on the link that SR gave( http://www.ckdesign-inc.com/images/Turbo/akmiller.jpg ) is that the finned adapter that mounts the carb has an engine water passage built-in to prevent carb icing. That's a necessary provision for many climates. Don't know if Ak still has those pieces available. He called his(1 barrel carb) piece for the SB6 a #400-2, and the (Holley or Ford 2-bbl) unit for the BB6 a #700-2. Phone is (562)949-2548.
J.R.
J.R.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Has anyone got a quote from Ak Miller? And will he ever get a website? 
Ak Miller is a good ol' boy. Must be about 90 by now.
We need to beg steal or borrow any info he's got...
Got my log engine last Friday. It was just a little 200, and its got the tiny log and normal cast exhast.
I don't like any heating of the intake manifold by the exhast sysyem, and it lookes like the casting wouldn't take much heat without cracking. There is a possiblity of just doing minimum and getting tube bends and mounting the turbo on a stauncion, but it'd be a cheap and nasty solution.
I favour sorting out an envelope of possible conversions, and then picking the type of arrangement that allows the alternator, power steering pump, air pump and a/c to sit in the normal position.
I think that the RWD Buick Century 3.8 Turbo set up, where the Qjet or 2Jet carb was on the drivers side, and the turbo was positioned right over the intake manifold, would be okay on a 1.75" intkae log. I'd like two intake discharge points on any six, but it seams to me a single turbo not over 7.4 inches from the discharge point of the turbo to the top of the base of the hood should be okay. The you just feed it via the Qjet hanging over the top of the rocker cover, then if would be very simple. The ~ 650 to 750 cfm Qjet as a draw trhough could supply up to 460 hp with the right jets, hanger and metering rods. The exhast system could then employ either a custom ductile iron casting, or a handbuilt (and simple) system that gm destroya suggests. Every thing would be short, and the carb and ancilaries could then follow normal practice. The Qjet could then take a Boss 302/429/Cobra Jet shaker induction scoop.
All I need to know from you guys is what is the height from the base of the log intake carby to the bottom of the hood. I estimate about 8" on the 65 Mustang, and about 7.5" on the Fox bodies.
I also need to know the depth of the (TRW/Schwitzer ?) turbo the early pre GNX Buicks (1978 to 1982) ran.
If it packages, the 200 cubes nice low deck height and vast strength may make it the engine to turbo
We need to beg steal or borrow any info he's got...
Got my log engine last Friday. It was just a little 200, and its got the tiny log and normal cast exhast.
I don't like any heating of the intake manifold by the exhast sysyem, and it lookes like the casting wouldn't take much heat without cracking. There is a possiblity of just doing minimum and getting tube bends and mounting the turbo on a stauncion, but it'd be a cheap and nasty solution.
I favour sorting out an envelope of possible conversions, and then picking the type of arrangement that allows the alternator, power steering pump, air pump and a/c to sit in the normal position.
I think that the RWD Buick Century 3.8 Turbo set up, where the Qjet or 2Jet carb was on the drivers side, and the turbo was positioned right over the intake manifold, would be okay on a 1.75" intkae log. I'd like two intake discharge points on any six, but it seams to me a single turbo not over 7.4 inches from the discharge point of the turbo to the top of the base of the hood should be okay. The you just feed it via the Qjet hanging over the top of the rocker cover, then if would be very simple. The ~ 650 to 750 cfm Qjet as a draw trhough could supply up to 460 hp with the right jets, hanger and metering rods. The exhast system could then employ either a custom ductile iron casting, or a handbuilt (and simple) system that gm destroya suggests. Every thing would be short, and the carb and ancilaries could then follow normal practice. The Qjet could then take a Boss 302/429/Cobra Jet shaker induction scoop.
All I need to know from you guys is what is the height from the base of the log intake carby to the bottom of the hood. I estimate about 8" on the 65 Mustang, and about 7.5" on the Fox bodies.
I also need to know the depth of the (TRW/Schwitzer ?) turbo the early pre GNX Buicks (1978 to 1982) ran.
If it packages, the 200 cubes nice low deck height and vast strength may make it the engine to turbo
At the front (lowest point) I measured 330mm clearance deck to underside bonnet skin. Simple to deduct the carb pad - head face dimension from there.
Your relos in town? Thought they mighta dragged you off to shul over the weekend... Shanah Tovah and all that to youse.
Your relos in town? Thought they mighta dragged you off to shul over the weekend... Shanah Tovah and all that to youse.
Bewdy addo. The log head is tilted at about 3 to 4 degrees, and the base of the carby manifold boss is 4.72 inches up from the deck of the engine. If there is 13 inches of room at the front, then it is likely to be 13 plus the 0.75" due to tilt at the middle of the engine, or around 13.75- 4.72, or 9" of space. If the Buick turbo is as shallow as this, then it'll have a heap of room! 233 mm of room is plenty!
I hate single point discharges of fuel air mix, but if its got a big enough plenumb and next to no length to centrifuge out the mix, then 16 psi boost on 8:1 compression and a big 4-bbl may make this a simple modification.
(My natural dad, the 'old man" is helping out coaching Namibian rugby, so come October he'll be over here, with my half brother. Saw my sis and Dad in Alex this weekend. All going good.
)
I hate single point discharges of fuel air mix, but if its got a big enough plenumb and next to no length to centrifuge out the mix, then 16 psi boost on 8:1 compression and a big 4-bbl may make this a simple modification.
(My natural dad, the 'old man" is helping out coaching Namibian rugby, so come October he'll be over here, with my half brother. Saw my sis and Dad in Alex this weekend. All going good.
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