Ugh, trouble taking the Mustang out of storage...

[cfmustang]

Well, we finally are having a decent weekend up here on the north coast so I thought I would take my Mustang out of storage at my brother's house and bring it home (I had to move it there to make room in my garage for everything in my basement... finishing my basement was my Winter project).

When I dropped it off in the fall, it was running like a top. Sure, the idle was a bit rich when choked but once it was out of choke it was running pretty nicely. My brother has been starting it from time to time and during the real mild January we had, took it for a ride and commented how well it was running.

I went there without any tools expecting it to be a simple pick it up and drive it home.

Ha!

It started ok, but every time it goes into gear it stalls. Also, once the choke was disenguaged, the idle was surging and it was stalling. I didn't have anything there to really dig in and I had other things to do so I had to push it back into the garage.

Any ideas before I go back in a week or two?

All I have to say is that this cant be happening again...

 

[addo]

Sounds like a vacuum leak to me. What if a valve had slightly frozen open, otherwise?

 

[JackFish]

Unless you kept the tank topped off and put some gasline antifreeze in it you could have some water in there.

 

[cfmustang]

I was thinking the same thing about the gas myself. The sender in the tank is still bad and I don't remember how much gas was in the tank when I put her away in my brother's garage, but I don't think it was topped off.

What are the symptoms of bad/water gas?

I considered a vacuum leak and tested to see if I was too lean by covering half of the carb ventris with my hand to richen up the mixture. It didn't smooth out so it isn't lean. I didn't check to see if it was too rich, though. Next time, I'll open up the vac tee I left in last summer and see if the extra air smooths it out.

Back to basics, I guess.

I guess I just assumed that once I had it solved last Summer, that it was something I wasn't going to have to worry about again. I only have so much budget to spend and this year I planned to spend it on the body, not the engine... Is it always going to be this touchy?

 

[Stubby]

If it has been cranked often and not driven much the plugs might be gas fouled. A real rich mixture (choked) on a cold engine equals poor distribution. Plugs are cheap.

 

[64.5 TX Stang]

Sounds like bad gas to me, and not the kind that makes you blush. ALthough Stubby makes a good point of plugs being cheap.

 

[cfmustang]

I appreciate the ideas, guys.

Since the car is away from my tools, I need to put together a list of things to take to get it tip-top again. New plugs are a pretty good idea.

How do I solve the potential bad gas issue. I can't drive it to a gas station to fill it up.

Will a gallon or two of fresh gas be enough or do I need some sort of additive?

 

[Stubby]

Berrymans or alcohol should take care of moisture.

If it is low on gas, dilution is the solution. Fill it up with good gas.

I doubt you would need to drain tank.

The plugs might not be bad but the log intake will tend to promote gas fouled plugs when it is cold. Sometimes you can use an inductive timing light and clip it on one plug at a time with it running and isolate cylinders that are not firing.

So take plug socket and rachet. Wrenches for fuel lines. Screwdrivers.
Plugs. If you don't need them now you will in the future.
A cresent or two in place of the wrenches you forgot. A pair of channel locks to chew up a few bolt heads

You fought enough problems with the carb and fuel system in the past. Take this knowledge with you, it will come in handy. I think you can handle it.

 

[JackFish]

do I need some sort of additive?

Yes, a small bottle of water remover/gasline antifreeze in the tank should do the trick.
I recommend a can of "Quickstart" or some such product to spray down the carb throat while you're trying to start it. You'll have to crank it long enough to get to the "fresh" gas in the tank. Maybe replace the fuel filter after running the old gas through. Might be some sediment there.
and spare battery or jumper cables...just in case

 

[I66coupe]

Gasline antifreeze/water remover is nothing more than alcohol. If you use gasahol, you already have plenty of alcohol in there. I would guess you do have bad gas. A few gallons of fresh gas along with some octane booster should do the trick.

 

[Stubby]

I recommend a can of "Quickstart" or some such product to spray down the carb throat while you're trying to start it.

If that is starting fluid I would not use it. As an engine builder I have seen more damage than good from starting fluid.

I like to use Berrymans, it's a lot easier on the engine.

I didn't even think about jumper cables.

 

[JackFish]

I didn't know about the Berryman stuff, just checked it out, looks great.
The problem with starting fluid may be that you can keep an engine running on it too long masking some other fuel delivery problem. Used incorrectly it would certainly cause damage.
I think the log is a big long cold hunk of metal with plenty of opportunity under the right conditions for alot condensation to puddle up. Weird, kind of like it depends on the weather, and the amount of water already present in the gas. I would think our engines could stand up to a couple of shots to get it going, and if it doesn't go, then maybe there's no fuel issue at all.

 

[cfmustang]

Starter fluid and jumpers wont be needed. There is plenty of juice in the battery and it starts fine. As long as it was choked and the high speed idle was on, it ran...poorly, but ran. If I put it in gear... stall. It would also stall once the choke disengauged and the idle dropped to normal.

I am apt to believe that is is something environmental since nothing mechanical has been done to the car while in storage and it ran fine when I dropped it off. I am leaning toward water in the gas and/or fouled plugs at the moment.

The conditions on Saturdary were somewhat damp (it rained the day before and at night) and in the mid 50's. Looking ahead a few weeks, we're ack to the 30's and snowy for a while so I wont be trying again for a bit...

 

[JackFish]

Dying fuel pump will exhibit similar symptoms - dying when you apply throttle.
Or crap in the filter.

 

[cfmustang]

Well, we'll see in a bit.

The weather turned nice for today and today only (65 and sunny), so I took a half day off. I going to throw some tools in the car, hit Autozone for some STP gas treatment and a new set of plugs and see what is what.

 

[Anonymous]

Check the PCV valve. Just pull it and stick your finger over the hole in the end. If it's sticking open that's a huge vacuum leak and could cause the problems listed.

 

[jahearne]

It does sound like bad gas, but have you checked for condensation under the rotor cap? I'd hose down all the electrical with WD-40. Also, if possible and safe to do so, try running a hose from a gas can directly to the fuel pump.

Good luck!

 

[cfmustang]

Still not sure what it is.

I pushed it out of the garage and swapped the plugs. The old ones weren't too bad (except #3 was real loose) but I replaced them anyway. Cheap insurance.

Then, I dumped in some STP gas treatment and two gallons of fresh 93 octane. Still no good.

I started up fine and ran a little smoother while choked, but once it is put in gear...immediate stall. At least the miss is gone. So, I let it warm all the way up. Same thing. The idle was really pretty high and surgeing some.

I pulled the pcv valve to introduce a vacuum leak and it stalled immediately. I took off the air cleaner and covered up part of one of the air horns and the idle went up and it smoothed out. That points to it running too lean. Strange, because when I put it away for the winter, it was fine.

I did a quick visual check of all the vacuum lines and they seem secure. I didn't have any carb clean to test with though.

Unfortuantely, my brother has no real tools and I just had a set of sockets and some screwdrivers. I tried to set the carb back to base settings by memory but without a timing light, vacuum gauge, or vacuum nipples to disconnect the dizzy... I could only do a partial job.

It got slightly better. I was able to lower the idle quite a bit (to around 1200) and keep it running while in park, though it would occasionally drop significantly in RPMS and almost stall. I got it to where I could put it in gear and it would run like a tractor for a minute before stalling.

Some progress, I guess.

I am leaning toward picking up a new fuel filter (for the surging) and going back on the next warm day with my timing light, vacuum gauge and a full set of tools to tune it up.

Any suggestions for or against what i am considering?

 

[Stubby]

It sounds like you are headed in the right direction. You could have some trash inside the carb causing it to lean out or you might find a vacume leak. While you are looking, pop the dist cap and look for moisture. You have definately got it on the run

Let me take a minute to say you sound like a confident man. 8)
This can't be the same guy who sounded like he was going to throw in the towel You have isolated a possible lean condition and are also considering other possible causes. Enjoy the puzzle and accept a pat on the back from me.

 

[cfmustang]

Ugh. Still no progress.

The sun was out and it was almost 80, so I decided to try another 1/2 day off to get the Mustang running.

This time, I picked up a new in-line filter (clear) and brought all my tune-up tools.

Replaced the filter...yuck the old one dumped nasty gas and rust chips everywhere. Guess I really need to consider replacing the whole tank when I fix the bad sending unit...

All in all, I spent about 3 hours trying to tune it and get it running no change. I eventually picked up a new set of wires (although they were all I could find on short notice... and they were too short to reach the last two cylinders but they smoothed out the occasional miss).

I could get it idleing pretty nice, but the second I put it in gear...stall. That is unless I really jack up the idle to about 1500 RPM. Then it shakes like a tractor with the brakes engaged.

I am really reaching here, but here is my latest idea. Someone tell me if I am on crack, please. When I drove it to my brother's garage to store it, it ran perfect. My brother even drove it once or twice...perfect. NOBODY touched a single setting while it was in storage. I was trying to think of one variable that changed and I remembered a small transmission fluid leak where the tranny line goes to the radiator. It had been leaking all winter. As my last act today, I fixed the leak, but didn't have any fluid with me. When I checked the dipstick, it was right a the line marked fill (so it was about half full).

Now, with my cam, C4 and stock converter, the car has been shakey at idle with the brakes engaged because I have to keep the idle at about the stall speed for the converter. Could it be that this with low fluid is causing the 8.0 shake on the Ricter scale now?