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Dialing in a new DS2

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DoctorC
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Dialing in a new DS2

Post #1 by DoctorC » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:44 pm

Hi All, (sorry for the long read)

So I've installed the DS2, curved by wsa11 (thanks Bill!) for my street use. After a couple conversations with him, and some reading I've come to the following understanding of timing advance. But something is off. Hopefully you can help.
For the tuning, start it up and let her warm up. Once warm set the timing advance with the vacuum unplugged from the distributor.

    The ford manual for the 67 Mustang (AT) says to set advance @ 12 degrees in drive.
    Ive read that with DS2, add 5 degrees to stock max = 17degrees
    The MSD manual says to set the plugs at 45-55 gap, so I set 54
    Bill set my distributor @ 18 degrees initial advance
    Curved to about 36 degrees max
    (was still using the 1bbl carb)

When I set the initial advance in park (I'm solo) at ~650 RPM the engine runs rough at 17 degrees. Worse with less. Happy point is around 20-24, where she runs smoothest. Ok, set to 17 degrees, plugged in vaccum port and went for a drive.

All was ok, except at WOT I get what sounds like a buzz. I'm assuming this is detonation. I stopped doing that. In drive, stopped, the idle was very rough and shaky. But it ran. So I installed the Weber 32/36 last weekend. It's in and running, but pretty rough. Once I get the gas pedal hooked up and the fuel regulator installed, I'll try and dial it all in.

My understanding of advance is that:
    Initial advance (18 degrees)
    is added to measured advance (17 degrees)
    This gives 35 degrees advance at idle?

This seems a little excessive. Am I misunderstanding something? Dialing in the Carb and DS2 together is going to be a PITA if I don't get the theory down. VI ships the Weber jetted already, so hopefully that'll not be an issue.

Thanks in advance!
1967 Cherry Red Mustang
Weber 32/36,
MSD 6AL+MSD Coil,
Duraspark 2 dizzy

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wsa111
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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #2 by wsa111 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:24 pm

What grade of fuel are you running??
There should be 14 degrees of vacuum advance on your DS11.
When you point the timing light does the mark on the pulley jump around or is it steady??
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Econoline
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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #3 by Econoline » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:50 pm

It's sounds like maybe you have the idle set a little low, should be 525-575 in drive. Maybe a bit more if it helps. You didn't mention adjusting the idle mixture screw(s). Did you?

At 17 degrees advanced w/ the curb idle set and idle mixture screw(s) adjusted properly(lean best idle) and it's still running rough you either have a vacuum leak somewhere(pvc, brake booster, bad port caps on unused vacuum port(s), bad vacuum modulator in the transmission, bad hose, bad connection(s), bad carb flange gasket, ect), ignition problem(misfire, bad plug/wire, cap/rotor issue, weak coil ect) or a problem with the carb/fuel.

I've never ran an MSD CD ignition box so I may be out there, but .054" gap seems pretty wide to me.

Are you using ported vacuum or manifold vacuum? You shouldn't have any vac advance in at idle if you're using ported vacuum. And having full advance at cruise is a good thing. Iow, little mechanical, alot of vac advance and your initial timing when cruising like under light throttle. Do you have a dial back timing light?
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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #4 by DoctorC » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:14 pm

wsa111 wrote:What grade of fuel are you running??
There should be 14 degrees of vacuum advance on your DS11.
When you point the timing light does the mark on the pulley jump around or is it steady??

I'm on regular gas. And the card you sent with the DS2 said "18 degrees initial" , so I assumed that was the advance?

Econoline wrote:It's sounds like maybe you have the idle set a little low, should be 525-575 in drive. Maybe a bit more if it helps. You didn't mention adjusting the idle mixture screw(s). Did you?

At 17 degrees advanced w/ the curb idle set and idle mixture screw(s) adjusted properly(lean best idle) and it's still running rough you either have a vacuum leak somewhere(pvc, brake booster, bad port caps on unused vacuum port(s), bad vacuum modulator in the transmission, bad hose, bad connection(s), bad carb flange gasket, ect), ignition problem(misfire, bad plug/wire, cap/rotor issue, weak coil ect) or a problem with the carb/fuel.

I've never ran an MSD CD ignition box so I may be out there, but .054" gap seems pretty wide to me.

Are you using ported vacuum or manifold vacuum? You shouldn't have any vac advance in at idle if you're using ported vacuum. And having full advance at cruise is a good thing. Iow, little mechanical, alot of vac advance and your initial timing when cruising like under light throttle. Do you have a dial back timing light?


I was thinking of dialing back the plug gaps. Prob back to 40, just to be safe. I havent mucked with any of the idle or mixture of the Weber yet. It's just bolted down and hooked up is all. That's next, but I'm hoping to start at least with a good advance point, to not worry about the DS2. I bought a Vacuum guage to help with all this... dont know where to hook it to yet tho =)
1967 Cherry Red Mustang
Weber 32/36,
MSD 6AL+MSD Coil,
Duraspark 2 dizzy

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #5 by StarDiero75 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:40 pm

Id do what Econoline said and check for vacuum leaks. Go to town with starter fluid and see if it stumbles. Check all the places he mentioned
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #6 by JackFish » Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:41 pm

Stock camshaft?

I run 12 degrees timing with rpms up about 750-800 with my cam 264/274/112.
Plug gaps at .050.
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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #7 by wsa111 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:22 pm

Plug gap .045"-.048" is what you need.
When you put the timing light on the pulley is the mark steady or does it go spastic.
If it goes spastic you have the polarity reversed to the MSD from the DS11.
Did you get the MSD-8869 harness which connect directly to the box??
As post before check for vacuum leaks.
Till you get it dialed in go with a higher octane fuel.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #8 by DoctorC » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:30 pm

Not spastic, I bought the harness you recommended and I think it only hooks up one way.
I picked up a Bosch timing light that's multi-spark compatible, so I'm steady on the flashy-flashy too. Good call on the high octane fuel. I'll do that. I have an almost empty tank because I wanted to install a fuel sender that had a return line. I think i still may.
1967 Cherry Red Mustang
Weber 32/36,
MSD 6AL+MSD Coil,
Duraspark 2 dizzy

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chad
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32/26 carb & a new DS2

Post #9 by chad » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:34 am

bump, bump...
ign 1st then carb...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 32/26 carb & a new DS2

Post #10 by DoctorC » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:44 pm

chad wrote:bump, bump...
ign 1st then carb...


I hear ya. Once i get my exhaust hooked back up (i had the darn gasket in my hand last week while in the garage!! It's disappeared, prob went to that place with the lost socks...) I'll dial back in the distributor. Your definitely right tho, ign 1st, carb second.
1967 Cherry Red Mustang
Weber 32/36,
MSD 6AL+MSD Coil,
Duraspark 2 dizzy

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #11 by DoctorC » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:57 am

Update:
I got the Dizzy set to 14 degrees advance and the idle is smooth and nice.

A couple questions tho:
1- The electric choke on my weber 32/36 never turned off. I'm powering it from the 12V line that used to go to the coil. So it's a switched 12V from my understanding. The radiator got hot, so it got up to temp? I rotated the bar connector for the choke signal (12V) 180 degrees, is there an internal mechanism I might have broken?
2- The PCV in is smoking a lot. Is there supposed to be lots of fumes in the valve area? I have the PCV return hooked up to the Carb, but since I was running no filter, the input was open and spewing fumes.

I setup the Carb to an idle of about 700rpm in Park. Pretty smooth. Idle mixture is at 2 turns out with the jets as shipped from VI. I will have to take it out for a spin once I figure out how to hook up the gas pedal =)
1967 Cherry Red Mustang
Weber 32/36,
MSD 6AL+MSD Coil,
Duraspark 2 dizzy

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dialing in a new DS2, onto 32/36'n PCV

Post #12 by chad » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:14 am

“…I'm powering it from the 12V line that used to go to the coil…”
Some use the lug off the alternator as it’s the correct voltage.

“…is there an internal mechanism …”
The black cap contains a coil spring. I don’t think you can break it by twisting, but they don’t usually get set off the middle (look 4 little hash marks on there) by much (middle is the long mark in ctr).

For the PCV system I would call them both “in”. The rear pvc itself can go on the ported or manifold vacuum I believe. The front, above the carb, into the air filter for the carb. Not sure what the Weber has for an a/f canister. “Extra smoke” can be a sign of ‘blow by’. Congrats on the Closed System PCV attempt.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #13 by Econoline » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:42 am

DoctorC wrote:Update:
I got the Dizzy set to 14 degrees advance and the idle is smooth and nice.

A couple questions tho:
1- The electric choke on my weber 32/36 never turned off. I'm powering it from the 12V line that used to go to the coil. So it's a switched 12V from my understanding. The radiator got hot, so it got up to temp? I rotated the bar connector for the choke signal (12V) 180 degrees, is there an internal mechanism I might have broken?
2- The PCV in is smoking a lot. Is there supposed to be lots of fumes in the valve area? I have the PCV return hooked up to the Carb, but since I was running no filter, the input was open and spewing fumes.


1, When you turn the choke thermostat housing in the direction of the choke blades closing it should close the blades and then open them when turned the other direction. If not, you should pull it off and make sure the little loop on the end of the bimetal coil is attached to the choke arm inside.

2, What is the condition of the engine? Is it a very recent rebuild? If it was recently rebuilt the rings may not be fully seated yet. As far as the "input" fuming, it shouldn't do that if the PCV is hooked up to manifold vacuum b/c it should be putting the valve cover in a slight vacuum.
Last edited by Econoline on Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: dialing in a new DS2, onto 32/36'n PCV

Post #14 by wsa111 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:51 am

[quote="chad"]“…I'm powering it from the 12V line that used to go to the coil…”
Some use the lug off the alternator as it’s the correct voltage.quote]
If you use the stator terminal its only 9 volts.
If you had a holley or an autolite carb, ford did make a choke housing which was compatible with 9V.
I mentioned holley cause i believe the Ford thermostat would fit.
You always could use a relay from the stator terminal to trigger 12V to the choke coil.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #15 by DoctorC » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:07 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll pull a 12V off the alternator.
The PCV "out" has a collapsed hose it seems and is not pulling a vacuum. I'll replace this and see how things go. I bought a compression tester to have an idea how the chambers are. I'll prob get to that next week. The PO did not know if the engine is rebuild or not. Peeking through the spark plug hole, the cylinder heads are clean as whistle, and when i bought it my mechanic said the oil pan was sludge free and the engine looked good. So I'm hoping that means 60K on the engine, not 160k.

Issues:
So yesterday, after dialing in the dizzy at 14 degrees, I wanted to tune the carb. So i hooked everything up and it ran like crap. Backfires, blow through the carb, i thought the engine was going to fly out of the bay it was so shakey. All this at idle.

Turns out the vacuum advance from the Weber is too strong. I pulled the advance and it runs great. Put my finger on it and it sucks like a hoover. Should i just leave it disconnected?

Thanks,
Roger
1967 Cherry Red Mustang
Weber 32/36,
MSD 6AL+MSD Coil,
Duraspark 2 dizzy

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dialing in a new DSII, then carb

Post #16 by chad » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:13 pm

"...I'll pull a 12V off the alternator. ..."
again, I'd use less. The lug may B labeled right on the case "STAT" for stator.
I put a lill inline fuse in there (not needed) just incase...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #17 by wsa111 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:16 pm

DoctorC wrote:Thanks for the suggestions. I'll pull a 12V off the alternator.
The PCV "out" has a collapsed hose it seems and is not pulling a vacuum. I'll replace this and see how things go. I bought a compression tester to have an idea how the chambers are. I'll prob get to that next week. The PO did not know if the engine is rebuild or not. Peeking through the spark plug hole, the cylinder heads are clean as whistle, and when i bought it my mechanic said the oil pan was sludge free and the engine looked good. So I'm hoping that means 60K on the engine, not 160k.

Issues:
So yesterday, after dialing in the dizzy at 14 degrees, I wanted to tune the carb. So i hooked everything up and it ran like crap. Backfires, blow through the carb, i thought the engine was going to fly out of the bay it was so shakey. All this at idle.

Turns out the vacuum advance from the Weber is too strong. I pulled the advance and it runs great. Put my finger on it and it sucks like a hoover. Should i just leave it disconnected?

Thanks,
Roger

Roger, try 17 degrees initial advance & see how it performs.
You can try to hook up the vacuum advance to ported vacuum.
See if it performs ok. Let me know. Bill
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #18 by xctasy » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:44 am

Weber had the bowel vent on the top of tge carb blocked off in European cars. You need to use the under carb PCV system.

Never hook the PCV to a Weber carb. It has to use an air cleaner suction source, and under carb suction source, and single or two peg TVS valve to balance the right flow.

Other ways exist to do the same job, but the Weber is very much an air flow emulsified carb that is a true spazin' out child that needs a specific firm but gentle hand to pull it into line. Adding the line to the carb makes everything ignition, fuel and vacuum related go to heck.
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FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #19 by DoctorC » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:06 pm

Oh, that's good info. Thanks for that. But what do I do now with that intake just leave it open or plug it off?
1967 Cherry Red Mustang
Weber 32/36,
MSD 6AL+MSD Coil,
Duraspark 2 dizzy

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #20 by chad » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:05 pm

most use a 'breather sty;e frnt V/C cap, where they top off when crankcase is low.

https://www.vintageinlines.com/product- ... eather-cap
the underneath view shows the 'air intake' dust baffled by a spun filter. Support those (here, Matt) who support you!

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway ... gK5Z_D_BwE
I don't like these as much as above, U can never account 4 taste/fashion, eh?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #21 by DoctorC » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:14 pm

Thanks Chad, I was actually referring to on the carb. So I ended up tieing into the manifold vacuum for the PCV and I plugged the vacuum port on the Carb, as well as the Vac advance port. Next weekend I'll tinker and see how best this evens out.

I did notice a buzz at strong accel after doing that. I assume this is detonation, so I'll be dialing in 17 degrees as Bill suggested and go from there. I'll report back!
1967 Cherry Red Mustang
Weber 32/36,
MSD 6AL+MSD Coil,
Duraspark 2 dizzy

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #22 by DoctorC » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:21 am

Update: I had the wires from the distributor hooked up backwards. The harness I bought was defective. I created a whole thread on it.
viewtopic.php?p=622048

Now I have SO MUCH POWER. Man driving this thing is like night and day, and so much fun! I'll re-gap my plugs down to 48-50 and retard down to about 16°. I get a light ticking at WOT I assume is detonation.

Now that i fixed the polarity, my dizzy vac advance is right up against the dipstick. So I think this weekend I'll pull the distributor and re-center it to have more space. And then tune my Carb! I bought a wideband AFR system and had the bung welded in today. That oughta help.
1967 Cherry Red Mustang
Weber 32/36,
MSD 6AL+MSD Coil,
Duraspark 2 dizzy

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #23 by wsa111 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:11 am

What octane gas are you using??
A lean A/F mixture at WOT will also cause detonation.
You want 12.7-13.1 at WOT.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #24 by DoctorC » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:55 pm

So I'm still working on getting this all tuned in. I keep working on the engine at night, after things cool down then find I have detonation during the day when I go for lunch. I hope i haven't damaged anything. Every time I get detonation, I dial back my acceleration.

I've been running 91 gas for this and last tank. But once the ambient temp hits the 100+ (every day, plus i'm @ 1200ft) i guess the air density is too low and I get detonation. This would explain why it's fine a WOT when i tune and test at night but not during the mid afternoon.

I pulled the distributor yesterday to re-position it so I wouldn't be right up against the dipstick. But to no avail. Either it hits the PS bar brace, or it hits the dipstick. Unfortunately, when i reinstalled and dialed in my dizzy yesterday I noticed a ticking that synced with my timing light. I assume it's a valve/lifter/someting from piston 1. I dialed it back to 15° (from 17°) to try and stop the detonation and the ticking was still there, and it follows rpm. I was afraid it was advance related (since it started after having advance way off after re-installing the dizzy) so I dialed back to 13°. I've left it there and will take it out for a spin today and see how things go.

I also noticed that the RPM jumps up about 100 ish when i hook up the vac advance. I've got it set to 900 in park which put me at 670 in drive. Below that and everything rattles at stoplights... but is the vac advance supposed to kick in so early?

If I don't have any detonation at 13, I might just leave it there. 17 was nice and peppy tho...

Should I run something through the oil/gas for the ticking? Sea foam, Mystery oil? Suggestions?

Thanks
1967 Cherry Red Mustang
Weber 32/36,
MSD 6AL+MSD Coil,
Duraspark 2 dizzy

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #25 by xctasy » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:46 pm

:idea: Its most likely the single idle jet of the 5200 or 32/36 Weber carb. Lopsided idle mixture uneven to all six cylinders, and very poor economy because of the idle circuit not feeding the engine makes a huge lean igntion issue which people try to prop up with other jetting changes.

Primary and secondary need to be partly open for air flow, and always, low speed pre-ignition is realted to the one jet, six cylinders feeding issue. About 13 version of the 5200 exist, and 28 of the 32/36 Weber. Its hard to be general with these carbs. The trick is to reprofile the idle jet, and secondary opening to ensure no knocking.

I had so much trouble with my C3 AUTO, 32/36 1975 TD Ford Cortina 2000, which had a Pinto OHC 2 liter engine with this carb...it drove me nutts with is incessant lean pre-ignition. Once it was set up wit extra secondary carb opening, it was fine. It was an ovebored, reconditioned OVERBORED high compression 2000 GT 9.2:1 car with an orginally manual spec ignItion and carb, plonked into an automatic low stall ratio car, so idle postion of the secondary blade of the throttle was critical.

Don't use any aftermarket air cleaner unless it works. Any toime you Cheap out on a Carb or Ignition, you ensure a whole pile of problems.
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FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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bubba22349
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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #26 by bubba22349 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:37 pm

Did you ever get that compression test on your engine done? What were the results? :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #27 by DoctorC » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:27 pm

I pulled the plugs and did a hot compression test last weekend.
Plugs looked great (600ish miles on them), albeit a little on the white side.
Dry PSI was: 150 - 155 - 150 - 155 - 140 - 140.
I dropped in 1mL of oil into 1 and 2 and got 155 and 155 PSI respectively, so I didn't do the rest.

I installed the Wideband O2 sensor and hooked up the riggamaroe to tune the Carb (on the bench, not in the dash). I was way rich. Less than 10 AFR. Dialed in the mixture screw and left it at 13 AFR. Sticks to 13ish all the way up to 4k RPM on the bench.
Took it for spin on the highway. No buzz @WOT and no smoke at idle.

Edit:
Today I dumped 1/2 can of Seafoam into the oil and went for a 20mi highway run for lunch (10mi each way to CarlJr and back). I had a buzz only at WOT while turning onto the on ramp from the stoplight. On the highway, no detonation at WOT. From a stop-start @ WOT, no detonation. So, if it's pinging at 13°, I assume it's the mixture. Not the advance? Once I install the O2 sensor in the dash and the vac gauage, I'll have more data on the state @ different throttle & load points.
1967 Cherry Red Mustang
Weber 32/36,
MSD 6AL+MSD Coil,
Duraspark 2 dizzy

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #28 by wsa111 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:20 pm

What octane fuel are you running????
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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DoctorC
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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #29 by DoctorC » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:42 pm

DoctorC wrote:I've been running 91 gas for this and last tank. But once the ambient temp hits the 100+ (every day, plus i'm @ 1200ft) i guess the air density is too low and I get detonation. This would explain why it's fine a WOT when i tune and test at night but not during the mid afternoon.
1967 Cherry Red Mustang
Weber 32/36,
MSD 6AL+MSD Coil,
Duraspark 2 dizzy

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #30 by bubba22349 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:45 pm

The compression test is decent. Do you have a tach to set the idle mixture and curb idle RPM with? Do you know if your timing chain set is in good condition?
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #31 by DoctorC » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:26 pm

I have the timing light with tach, so I can do that no problem.

I also have an broadband O2 sensor installed to tune with an AFR gauge. I also bought a vacuum gauge and a tach. It's a 3 gauge cluster i have to install as a radio delete.

I do not know the state of the timing chain.
1967 Cherry Red Mustang
Weber 32/36,
MSD 6AL+MSD Coil,
Duraspark 2 dizzy

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bubba22349
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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #32 by bubba22349 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:56 pm

The carb adjustments are the very last step of a good tune up done in this order.

1. Set the Plug gap to .044 or .045

2. Set your timing to 10 to 12 degrees BTDC, or your custom setting.

3. With the engine now warmed up to operating temp and check that the choke is fully open. Set idle mixture to lean best idle. This done by first setting it to the highest Idle RPM using a Tach / Dwell meter and then you turn the mixture screw in 1/4 turn (leaner). These above settings (and also next below) should be done with the Air Cleaner installed just as the car is operated or driven on the street.

4. Last set the Curb idle to 500 to 575 RPM for manual trans, 550 to 600 RPM for auto trans in drive with parking brake set, this will usually be 50 to 100 RPM higher when trans is in Neutral or Park.

5. Repeat 3 & 4 to see if there is any more improvement.

Remember that when you change the base ignistion timing setting you will also need to retune the carb settings again.


To get an idea on the timing chains condistion turn the engine in its normal rotation stoping when the crankshafts Dampner is on TDC Mark. Next make a chock mark on the Distribitors rotor position now turn the engine backwards until the rotor just starts to move and stop and Mark it there and on the crankshaft Dampner. The differance from TDC Mark to the second mark is a good indication of the amount of the timing chain stretch or slop. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Dialing in a new DS2

Post #33 by wsa111 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:08 pm

Put in a 160 thermostat.
Make sure your A/F ratio cruising is in the 14-14.7 area. WOT should be 12.7-13.1.
If you still have part throttle detonation with all of the above, install the shorter degree vacuum advance i sent you & bump the timing to 16-17" initial.
Question, just give me a shout. Bill
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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