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Budget Rebuild / Rehab

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bones 92
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Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #1 by bones 92 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:14 am

Hello Everyone!

I am starting this topic due to my recent decision to dive into the motor.

Here is a quick recap: The falcon has been sitting for over 20 years, the motor was starting then stalling. I put in a new fuel system front to back. Rebuilt carburetor, new ignition switch, starter solenoid, starter, coil, wires, dizzy cap, rotor, points, and condenser. I may be missing something but ask if needed.

Starting compression when I got the car, just to check if it would run was between 65-90 on all 6 cyl. Compression now is 1:65 2:135 3:140 4:135 5:135 6:140
Thats when I decided to dive in to find the problem, seems like there was a broken ring and it scraped with cyl wall. If you want to see the whole process getting to this point see the thread: Smoke from Carb, where my project continues to snowball.

Where I am at now: Head is off and out of the car (working on disassembly of all the valves to clean and hand lap them. Block is still in the car, I have no room or hoist to remove it. I did however manage to ridge ream and hone all 6 cyl. So far everything is going smooth! I plan on doing a rering kit, all new gaskets and hand lapping the valves and see what happens.

Most important right now! Bubba recommended a kit from falconglobal on ebay: What size bearings and rings do I need they say I have to specify the size? I'm looking at this from work so I don't have my handbook in front of me. I'm not sure if I should be ordering oversize rings or if the standard will still be good after honing?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-rering-engine-kit-144-170-1960-61-62-63-64-65-66-67-68-69-70-71-72-car-van/350138357474?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
And if you want to look at the pictures I have tons but I am trying to organize before It gets out of hand:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TRi85PytyK_y8zb6zSPmKXMaO-EmcqLh

Thanks for everyones help so far on the other topic: Hoping to continue to learn and get this ol' girl back on the road before summer!
Last edited by bones 92 on Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1962 Falcon Barn Find: Stock 144, LOM & SVC holley 1909. Freshly "rebuilt" new rings, bearings, and overall cleanup on all engine components. Almost up and running, starts and idles but no vroom vroom. :beer:

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chad
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Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #2 by chad » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:49 am

for me 1782 is the only pic needed. I'd wrk that cyl (ring, ridge ream, hone, ID valve issue, etc). Nuttin else.
I'm budget constrained as well. Ran my '68 170 33 yrs (woods wrk truck) that way. Much of it to get back to wrk
not just $. Make $ insteda spend...
As it is now, look 4 Y that 1 went bad. What caused the problem? Is it an oil passage problem, a simple ring failure, Y? If not doing a comprehensive (big buck) job...the Qs to answ are important. U address a very specific area, attempt to assure its correct, does not happen as soon as buttoned back up. My 2 cents...
-All in a sense of sharing, comradship, and enjoyment~
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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bubba22349
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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #3 by bubba22349 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:15 am

For the rings you could measure the bore if you have the tools to determine the bore size a stock standard 144 bore measures 3.500. Far easier since your not boring the cylinder and replaceing the Pistons is after your pistions are cleaned really well look at the tops of the pistions for any oversize markings so you can get the correct sizes. No markings or Std. means they are a Standard size, if you see markings like this .020, .030, .040, .060 ect. these are oversizes i.e. the engine has been bored out in the past. Order the rings sizes by those exact markings you can't use bigger ring oversizes than that are in your engine it would be to tight. If you have any trouble determining the piston size post a good close up picture of the pistion top. Using oversize rings with make the engin too tight and lock it up, too loose and it will have excessive blow by, oil consumption, low compression ect.

You could measure the crankshaft Rod journal size with a Mic if you have one a stock 144 standard size Rod Journal measures 2.1236. Or Remove the old Rod bearing insert for the rod cap and look at the back of it for markings again if there is no mark, a FoMoCo in an oval (this is an Original Equipment Ford bearing), or Std. these all indicate a standard size bearing. If you see a .010, .020, .030, .040, these are undersized bearings. i.e. The crankshafts bearing journal has been ground undersize in the past. You would order the exact same size as the old bearing, too loose will cause low oil pressure, a spun bearing, Rod knock ect., to big will lock up the engine. If you have trouble figuring out the bearing size post a picture of the back of the bearing. AgaIn since your not having the crankshaft ground to the next undersize than you can't use any size bigger than what is in your engine now. Keep up the good work, best of luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

bones 92
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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #4 by bones 92 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:28 pm

Thanks as always! :thumbup:

I’ll get the pistons cleaned up tonight and take some pictures to make sure I ID them right. As well as the bearings.

Chad: I’ll take a better picture of #1 tonight after teaming and honing. It is much improved already from picture 1782! I will try to figure out if there are any issues but I’m 90% sure it was a ring failure. I bent my valve removal tool (it was for motorcycles) so I ordered a new one to complete that job. Is there a way to know if it was an oil passage problem?

More updates to follow tonight. 8)
1962 Falcon Barn Find: Stock 144, LOM & SVC holley 1909. Freshly "rebuilt" new rings, bearings, and overall cleanup on all engine components. Almost up and running, starts and idles but no vroom vroom. :beer:

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #5 by B RON CO » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 pm

Hi, X2. unless you bore the block or cut the crank, you use the size that came out.
Worn bearings show copper color. If the crank is smooth it is probably OK. A good machinist can measure for wear and taper.
I check the new bearing clearance with plasti-gauge, before assembly lube.
Moly rings need a smooth bore. If you go moly use a 3 stone hone and fine stones, not a ball hone.
I use an old ring, broken in half, to gently clean the ring grooves. You should check the end gap on the rings, and fit all the compression rings to a cylinder. You should also check the ring to the ring land on the piston. If the piston land is worn, the space will be too big, and the ring will flop around
If you ever rebuilt an engine or not, I would recommend a book by Tom Monroe, How to rebuild you Small Block Ford. There are good tips that apply to all engine work.
Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

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chad
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Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #6 by chad » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:10 pm

"...way to know...(of)...an oil passage problem..."
just 1 idea. Let's C if the experts have suggestions. I just never see 1 cyl go like that. Did that guy (OP) ever change the oil?

Anyway, compressed air is my best friend. I use it every day (not just to power tools) to blow off stuff (after brake clean on surfaces, my clothing ta go home, motors, etc). I'd push it thru all known passages till runnin clean & w/full pressure. The Handbook (& may B 'tech archive' above as guides) show them. The rocker shaft is gunna B clogged if what I see in ur pic is any indication. U now have access (both directions) to "the kidney shaped" hole in block, head, etc...HTH !!!

Others can *Problem Solve on "the 1 piston", *offer more on the oil passages, or *poo poo the whole idea (of tryin to ID the initial issue).
Y would a ring break? Was the ridge after or B4 the break? Is that the whole story to this failure? By this time the committee usually would have chimed in. :hmmm: :nod:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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bubba22349
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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #7 by bubba22349 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:52 pm

Hi Chad, After having examined all the pictures by bones92 I will take a shot at the question of why it broke a ring. The crankshafts Rod journals look to be in very good condition no pictures of the Rod bearings but I am going to assume that because the engine had very good oil pressure that they are also still in reasonablely good condistion. In my opinion this would rule out a clogged oil passage problem in the short block / bottom end. Should the rocker shaft be cleaned out while its apart? Yes for sure this is a good idea and they are know to get gummed up with sludge.

The sludge build up inside the engine as well as the external appearance of this engine is evadenice of a lack of care by a previous owner or owners during its many years of existence since 1962. I believe this lack of care on the oil and filter changes before and or also because of it's 20 years of setting unused are the most likely possable causes of the broken ring. Unless an engine was well pickled before it was stored unused for this 2 decades, then when you also bring an engine out of this long of a slumber it takes some special procedures to keep from causeing engine damage before starting them up again. There is also the possibility that the ring was broken during it use sometime before this 20 years of setting unused and that is maybe why it was parked. From looking at the picture of the grove worn in #1 cylinder in my opinion this happened before it was parked. The two compression tests are an indacator to as #1 cylinder stayed the same yet with cleaning and a couple of oil changes and some running time of the engine in cylinders #2 though #6 the compression improved greatly likely from those rings loosening up and or the valves also sealing better.

By the way the hone job on number one looks real good and should work fine for this rering / overhaul. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #8 by Econoline » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:55 pm

What I wonder is will the rings rotate or get fixed in that groove just waiting to snag forming a little bump?
It ain't gonna fix itself

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chad
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Budget Rebuild (quick & simple seems enuff)

Post #9 by chad » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:23 pm

"...broken during it use sometime before this 20 years of unuse..."
and runa good while to form the ridge.

"...the rings rotate or get fixed in that groove just waiting to snag forming a little bump?"
I think that;s moot. Is re surfacing the cyl wall, cleaning the ring groove, replacing the ring.
May B I don't get ur point Seth (BTW - new thread on a sniper just showed in this form. Reminded them of ur current wrk w/BBD. They may PM you). Can U say more? :thumbup:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

bones 92
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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #10 by bones 92 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:20 am

Got out in the garage for a while tonight, was at least somewhat productive. I cleaned one piston, and decided to let the others bath in some cleaner because getting the ring lands were so caked it is unreal. But either way I pretty much done with two now. The bearings are looking pretty good maybe some slight wear in the center (they all look very similar) but no copper look. I as usual took a bunch of photos. But I noticed something strange: There are 7 different rings on the piston? The upper compression ring is normal, then on the second ring there is another compression ring, a very small ring under it and then a wavy type ring behind them both, then the typical oil ring set up. But its progressing, I will order the rering kit all standard based. As usual thanks for the help. All opinions and ideas are much appreciated!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TRi85PytyK_y8zb6zSPmKXMaO-EmcqLh
1962 Falcon Barn Find: Stock 144, LOM & SVC holley 1909. Freshly "rebuilt" new rings, bearings, and overall cleanup on all engine components. Almost up and running, starts and idles but no vroom vroom. :beer:

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Budget Rebuild: depth of socring, ridge

Post #11 by chad » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:42 am

"...get fixed in that groove..."
reviewing the pic again I think I now know. I C sompin new-to-me.
One of the issues is the deep vertical score on the #1 wall is it passenger's side.
(may B frm dragin the piston out w/broken ring projecting)
Has that been reduced w/the resurfacing you've done?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

bones 92
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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #12 by bones 92 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:27 pm

It could have been on me when pulling the piston out but it is on the driver side. I really hope I didn’t cause it :bang: But. It has reduced in size my fingernail will barely grab it now. I’m going to hone again before I put everything back together and work out the ridge a little more. I started cleaning up the other pistons and noticed some pretty bad pitting, I don’t have photos yet and honestly plan on using it anyway. I should have assumed that this old neglected falcon, i would find some strange things.
1962 Falcon Barn Find: Stock 144, LOM & SVC holley 1909. Freshly "rebuilt" new rings, bearings, and overall cleanup on all engine components. Almost up and running, starts and idles but no vroom vroom. :beer:

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chad
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Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #13 by chad » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:27 pm

guy on another thread (look it up?) is thinkin of sleavin 1 cyl.
Never heard of doin that w/block in. Good luck on the cont. hand work.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #14 by jamyers » Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:20 pm

bones 92 wrote:... But I noticed something strange: There are 7 different rings on the piston? The upper compression ring is normal, then on the second ring there is another compression ring, a very small ring under it and then a wavy type ring behind them both, then the typical oil ring set up. But its progressing, I will order the rering kit all standard based. As usual thanks for the help. All opinions and ideas are much appreciated!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TRi85PytyK_y8zb6zSPmKXMaO-EmcqLh


Wow, I didn't know they used 3 compression rings, plus the oil scrapers! If all the other pistons are the same, and as long as the re-ring kit has the same number of rings, I wouldn't worry about it (except to wonder about Ford using a high-drag setup on an economy engine, lol)
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #15 by bubba22349 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:49 pm

Econoline wrote:What I wonder is will the rings rotate or get fixed in that groove just waiting to snag forming a little bump?


Yes the rings should rotate after the pistions ring groves are cleaned with a ring grove cleaner or you can use an old broken ring to scrape out the carbon build up. This wouldn't have happen if past owners had did regular oil and filter changes. In the past i rebuild an International six for my wife's uncle (around 1977) though he had bought that pickup new he never changed the oil or filter for 50,000 miles. It was compleately worn out long before it should have been. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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bubba22349
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Re: Budget Rebuild: depth of socring, ridge

Post #16 by bubba22349 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:58 pm

chad wrote:"...get fixed in that groove..."
reviewing the pic again I think I now know. I C sompin new-to-me.

Was the ridge after or B4 the break? Is that the whole story to this failure? By this time the committee usually would have chimed in. :hmmm: :nod:

One of the issues is the deep vertical score on the #1 wall is it passenger's side.
(may B frm dragin the piston out w/broken ring projecting)
Has that been reduced w/the resurfacing you've done?


The the cylinders ridge is cause by the rings wearing against the cylinder wall this was very common on the older engines that used cast iron rings. This would Have a happened before and during, the ridge line is only to the top of the upper pistion rings travel at TDC.

That's not likely that the grove happened from taking the pistion out you can see the discoloration in the bottom of the grove that this happened long ago, if it was recent it would be shiny. Yes the honing that bones92 did in #1 cylinder reduced the depth of the grove some and also took away any sharp edges. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #17 by bubba22349 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:23 pm

bones 92 wrote:It could have been on me when pulling the piston out but it is on the driver side. I really hope I didn’t cause it :bang: But. It has reduced in size my fingernail will barely grab it now. I’m going to hone again before I put everything back together and work out the ridge a little more. I started cleaning up the other pistons and noticed some pretty bad pitting, I don’t have photos yet and honestly plan on using it anyway. I should have assumed that this old neglected falcon, i would find some strange things.


No you didn't cause this bore scrape the discoloration of in the bottom of the grove is a telltale sign that this happened long ago. That's a very old style set of rings the new ones will be of a better design. I seen some pitting on the one pistion didn't look to bad, a sign that there was some moisture or water setting in it, should be okay if it's like that first one. Couldn't see the back of the bearing insert well enough to be able ID the size, needs some cleaning the markings will be near the parting line on tang side. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #18 by chad » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:25 pm

yep, as stated (I've seen this B4 more "back in the day") few oil changes.
They usta believe the oil changes were just to steal their $...
Glad the 'score' is old too as continues to add to the ID of original/whole problem.

Cont to see if "wrk that 1 cyl" avoids what Seth sez (score not too deep).

How bout the slieve Bubs? Not deep enuff to need that?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #19 by bubba22349 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:11 pm

Well Chad, the other site member had the bottom of a cylinder damaged from a Connecting Rod that broke it was a good candidate for a sleeve to fix it. Now in this case there is no good reason to put a sleeve in a cylinder that's not cracked or damaged and is still close to a standard bore. It would be better to just bore it out to the next oversize that would give it a nice round straight bore like .020, .030, .040, or even up to .060 over and install a new set of pistions. But this bore score isn't all that deep now so it's not enough to worry about. Plus in the beginning of this journey bones92 stated he wanted to fix this engine on a real tight budget, and that's going to rule out anything more than a rering overhaul, it won't be perfect but should put it back on the road quickly. Hope that helps you. :nod: :thumbup: Edited
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #20 by bones 92 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:06 am

Not much progress to report from today, even though I was out there for a long time :rolflmao: I cleaned the crap out of the head. There was a lot more junk than I thought! Stuff was caked on. But it's almost back to looking new. Even on a tight budget I'll try to get everything looking good. I'm almost done with cleaning the pistons, they are a pain in the ass to scrape clean. This poor little neglected motor definitely had a rough life. I will be doing the valve job tomorrow and hopefully finishing up the pistons too! Rings, bearings, valve seals and gaskets are on they way. :beer:
1962 Falcon Barn Find: Stock 144, LOM & SVC holley 1909. Freshly "rebuilt" new rings, bearings, and overall cleanup on all engine components. Almost up and running, starts and idles but no vroom vroom. :beer:

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #21 by bubba22349 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:15 am

:beer: congrats sounds like you making quite a bit of progress, yeah all that cleaning is hard work when it's that crusty. Keep up the good job :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #22 by B RON CO » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:06 am

Hi, I hope you have a wire wheel on a bench grinder and another wire wheel for your drill. You can get most of the parts perfectly clean with wire wheels and elbow grease. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

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chad
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Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #23 by chad » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:08 am

RePete, plez wear gloves, fella here died of
"auto mechanics" (ol school - hands constantaly in the hydrocarbons w/o nitril on -
oil chamges, lube jobs, etc) and I think it hada lot to do w/this.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #24 by bones 92 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:54 pm

Got busy today, Valves are cleaned and ready to reinstall once I have the seals. Valve head is super clean, I even got rid of some of the casting inside the buy the valves i didn't go crazy but could still go further like the handbook says but keeping it stock; i'm not sure its worth going further. Pistons are looking shiny and ready to go as well. :thumbup:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CLZVlzEHzKFEYm9xI_awlyUFWL-GGtyo

Anything else I should take care of while its all apart?
1962 Falcon Barn Find: Stock 144, LOM & SVC holley 1909. Freshly "rebuilt" new rings, bearings, and overall cleanup on all engine components. Almost up and running, starts and idles but no vroom vroom. :beer:

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chad
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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #25 by chad » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:12 am

ahahaha, that may NOT be the right Q to ask on a quick job like this, y'no? To me anyway. Like
valve seals, did it smoke when ran? - well it never hada oil change so yeah it smoked...
can't tell bout the seals w/that, Etc. Etc. Etc....no, again, 4 me, I'd just wrk that 1 cyl &
Button Er Up !
keep close ear, eye, nose, hand (& the rest) out as runs the nxt several hundred mi
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

bones 92
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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #26 by bones 92 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:50 am

Thats the goal chad! I just want it to go 10 miles first. And i guess I should have asked, is there anything else to clean or look for as i start installing everything this week? Also I was reading the manual and I couldn't find the bearing clearance, should I look for .002?
1962 Falcon Barn Find: Stock 144, LOM & SVC holley 1909. Freshly "rebuilt" new rings, bearings, and overall cleanup on all engine components. Almost up and running, starts and idles but no vroom vroom. :beer:

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Econoline
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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #27 by Econoline » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:12 am

According to my Chiltons the bearing clearances for the 144 are as follows,

Crankshaft - .0007-.0026" and .004-.008" endplay

Rods - .0006-.0026"
It ain't gonna fix itself

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jamyers
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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #28 by jamyers » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:43 pm

Econoline wrote:According to my Chiltons the bearing clearances for the 144 are as follows,

Crankshaft - .0007-.0026" and .004-.008" endplay

Rods - .0006-.0026"

Wow, bearing clearance specs as wide as that shows you how "economical" these engines were designed and built.

Also, how much crap they can take and still keep going.
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #29 by bubba22349 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:49 pm

Hi bones 92, great progress on cleaning up the little 144! When you get your rering kit and are ready to install the new rings here is some info if you happen to need it. Check the ring gaps are within specs in each bore in severial locations such as 1 inch down from top of the deck, at the bottom of the bore below the cylinder ring marks (this part of the cylinder should be really close still to the orginal bore size) showing the lowest piston ring travel, and in the center of the cylinder this info will also give you a fair idea of any cylinder wall wear or tapper. Rings also need to be installed correctly for good compression and proper oil control according to their markings which may be a bevel, a dot or 0 like circle, or no Mark. The package should tell you but if not (plain packaging) these marking face up when placed on the pistions if there is no Mark than they can go in either way, you can also get this basic info from the Hastings Rings web site (see link below). The ring gaps will need to be staggered so that no gaps are directly lined up with each other see below for a link to one diagram used by many racers though this isn't absolutely nessisary it also doesn't hurt to be this maticulus.

When your ready to install the pistons get some rubber fuel about 4 to 6 inches long that fits snugly on the Rod bolts this is to protect the crankshaft Rod journal during the installation. Clean and wipe out the rods big end bore throughly and install the new Rod bearings used some white lithium grease or liberal amounts of engine oil. After wiping out the cylinders so they are clean coat the wals good with engine oil as well as the pistions and ring then inststall pistion assembly using a good ring compressor tool with the crankshaft turned the lowest position (BDC) then if using engine oil above also liberally apply oil to the Rod journal to. Torque the Rod cap to its factory spec. of 24 to 26 Ft. LB's. then repeate to install the next pistion assembly. Then install oil pan and that buttons up the short block. The head clean up is going good too, yes if you wanted to clean up the valve bowls you could gain a little power for your efforts just as your Falcon Performace hand book the back cutting of the valves is also well worth the effort and will also reward you with some extra power. Everything is looking nice and clean on ring lands on the pistions plus even that top accumulator grove. Best of luck on your low budget rebuild. :thumbup: :nod: In Edited with some additional Info.

Hastings Ring Install Info
https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/tech-tips-faqs

Pistion Ring Gap Positions see page two
http://www.engineprofessional.com/TB/TB011117-2.pdf
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #30 by bubba22349 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:58 pm

bubba22349 wrote:
Econoline wrote:What I wonder is will the rings rotate or get fixed in that groove just waiting to snag forming a little bump?


Yes the rings should rotate after the pistions ring groves are cleaned with a ring grove cleaner or you can use an old broken ring to scrape out the carbon build up. This wouldn't have happen if past owners had did regular oil and filter changes. In the past i rebuild an International six for my wife's uncle (around 1977) though he had bought that pickup new he never changed the oil or filter for 50,000 miles. It was compleately worn out long before it should have been. :nod:


Hi Econoline, in expanding on my above answer to your post the rings absolutely need to move in the pistion ring groves. The rings have been found to move in the cylinder bore as well as the ring grove at ruffly 60 RPM while the engine is running. If you ever noted where the ring gaps were positioned while assembling a new engine then took it apart again after it's been in use for a time you would find the ring gap position will have moved. This may have been another possible reason for the "mystery Cause" of bones 92's #1 cylinders broken ring since that engine was so badly gummed up with sludge inside. :nod: :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #31 by bones 92 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:04 pm

Thanks for the install tips and clearances! I just got the rings and bearings today. It seems like the ring gap is a little too wide, but the worst one was by .003 is this going to be problematic? or is it just close enough to continue with the install? Cyl 1 had the worst taper by no surprise, .023 gap at the top and .015 at the bottom (compression ring). I'm going to install try and install a piston tonight and check the bearing clearance. The kit I bought - they forgot to send the gaskets so hopefully I can get them by the weekend and see how far I can get!
1962 Falcon Barn Find: Stock 144, LOM & SVC holley 1909. Freshly "rebuilt" new rings, bearings, and overall cleanup on all engine components. Almost up and running, starts and idles but no vroom vroom. :beer:

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #32 by Econoline » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:18 pm

.003" is less than the avg thickness of a human hair. I wouldn't worry about that with rings unless I was under minimum, or is it over? Unless it was real tight anyway.
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #33 by bones 92 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:25 am

Perfect! I assumed it was close enough. I installed one piston to make sure I had the right bearings and it was easier than I expected. Bearing clearance was .0015. Hopefully the gaskets come in time for the weekend. I will get the rest of the pistons installed tomorrow and Friday. Thanks again hopefully it all will go smooth and it will run better!
1962 Falcon Barn Find: Stock 144, LOM & SVC holley 1909. Freshly "rebuilt" new rings, bearings, and overall cleanup on all engine components. Almost up and running, starts and idles but no vroom vroom. :beer:

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #34 by bubba22349 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:02 am

The stock recommendation for the compression ring gap is .015 + or - .005 so your quite close to this just a little over it at the top of cylinder it will be fine. The oil ring gap is .020 + or - .030 :nod:

:D That Rod bearing clearance of .0015 is very good the crankshafts Rod journals and the Rods big ends are near perfect! I am perrty certain you will have a good running engine as far as the assembled short block is concerned. All that's left now will getting a good valve seal on the head. :beer: Excellent keep up the good work. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #35 by jamyers » Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:15 pm

Waitaminnit...
bones 92 wrote:...
It seems like the ring gap is a little too wide, but the worst one was by .003 is this going to be problematic?
...

Do you mean that one of your piston rings (in the cylinder) has a gap of only .003" ?? That's WAY too tight, that ring is going to expand and bind up horribly.
For ring diameters between 2.9525" and 3.5424" (Ford 144 is 3.5"), Hastings recommends 0.01" to 0.02" ring gap clearances.
https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/tec ... -ring-gaps



Nevermind, I just learned to read the word "by"...

If you've got one slightly bigger than spec, I wouldn't worry. If it was under spec (and too tight), then I'd worry.

Carry on.
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #36 by bones 92 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:52 pm

Good news for the most part from this weekend! Everything has been reassembled and it looking better than ever, I took the time to clean every nook and cranny. It was like it came from a lake It was awful, but now its actually serviceable. I had the falcon running better than ever and it is actually starting when I turn the key without too much fuss. After I got it warmed up I readjusted the valve lash, dwell and timing. Then I went ahead and did the compression test and it paid off after all!
1:120
2:140
3:140
4:145
5:135
6:140
I know it's not perfect but way closer than before. Thanks for all the help during this project!!

After getting all that accomplished today I decided to hook up the vacuum and pcv lines. It ended up making it idle a little rougher. Not only did it idle worse but I have no vacuum advance so when I hit the throttle it bogs down. Hoping you all can help me diagnosis this as well. I didn't spend a lot of time testing this other than using the timing light and noticing the mark never moves. Let me know what I should to do ID this problem. it is the LOM dizzy

Again thank you all for helping build this thing back up I know it will be on the road soon! :beer:
1962 Falcon Barn Find: Stock 144, LOM & SVC holley 1909. Freshly "rebuilt" new rings, bearings, and overall cleanup on all engine components. Almost up and running, starts and idles but no vroom vroom. :beer:

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chad
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"One Cylinder Sidney"

Post #37 by chad » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:09 pm

"... it is the LOM dizzy..."
& SCV carb?

(sorry I'm a bad boy. I ck in on so many threads [at several sites] I 4get all the running info.) I hada put up a memorable subject line
just to orient mah Alzheimer's~

Do U have the very correct PCV valve fr the motor Y/M/M engine U have? Many just grab any pvc offada self serve shelf.
As I recall its a 144 motor? Yr...the line's clear, good? Shake the valve like a mix on the rattle can paint'n it clicks at each end?

Many put all the info in their sig, below for ol duffers like me to double ck all the pertinent
(C mine below, but i went over board, ego ya know...)
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #38 by Econoline » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:14 am

That's good news! :beer:
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #39 by bubba22349 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:35 am

:beer: Congratulations that's a very good improvement will help it run much better. Ok now on to the bogging yes more than likely this is going to be connected to the LOM advance system. First thing to check that the distribtor vaccum canister will advanceing the Distribtor and that it will hold a vacuum if it dosn't it will need to be replaced. Check that the vaccum line coming from the carb that it's not plugged up with dirt or any other kind of junk. If I rember right you did clean the carb good already right? If not you need to make sure that all the vaccum passages are clean and free of any blockages. Plus you may need to replace the SCV on the carb if it wasn't already changed. Keep up the good work and soon you will be cruising around in that 1962 Falcon. One last thing when your doing any of the carb's final tuning of the idle mixture screw and the curb idle setting everything needs to be hooked up on the engine as it would be when your driving it on the street. This includes al the vaccum lines and PCV and its lines, plus the air cleaner also installed. Best of luck! :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #40 by bones 92 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:37 pm

Hey guys two night of trouble shooting and plenty of beers later, still can’t ID the problem. I have the scv carb and lom dizzy. I have re-cleaned the carb and vacuum passages. The vacuum canister is new and if I suck on the hose it does advance. (Not sure if there is a better way to test it) I have the correct but old pcv valve and I took it off cleaned it up a little and shook it, and it sounds like a paint can. The scv is also new, I put the old one on and no change. The falcon will only start if I have the pcv valve disconnected. Where to go from here I’m not sure? But either way, I’m posting from the driver seat and still proud of how far it’s come. Any help is much appreciated! :beer:
1962 Falcon Barn Find: Stock 144, LOM & SVC holley 1909. Freshly "rebuilt" new rings, bearings, and overall cleanup on all engine components. Almost up and running, starts and idles but no vroom vroom. :beer:

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chad
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Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #41 by chad » Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:00 pm

that would not do effect it that. U must hit something at the fire wall or sompin...
As all ways said here "A pic's worth a thou..." Tell us how the pcv system is set up...
ummm,...

Yeah, U deserve a :beer: for the success so far !
(1 way to skirt the issue, complements, make 'em think of something else).
:oops:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #42 by bones 92 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:01 pm

I'll take the distraction and pretend its running good, because it's simply running. But I made a video of whats going on. Let me know if it helps! Sorry its not the best video i've made :lol:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uK0wCX ... sp=sharing
1962 Falcon Barn Find: Stock 144, LOM & SVC holley 1909. Freshly "rebuilt" new rings, bearings, and overall cleanup on all engine components. Almost up and running, starts and idles but no vroom vroom. :beer:

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #43 by bubba22349 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:35 pm

bones 92 wrote:Hey guys two night of trouble shooting and plenty of beers later, still can’t ID the problem. I have the scv carb and lom dizzy. I have re-cleaned the carb and vacuum passages. The vacuum canister is new and if I suck on the hose it does advance. (Not sure if there is a better way to test it) I have the correct but old pcv valve and I took it off cleaned it up a little and shook it, and it sounds like a paint can. The scv is also new, I put the old one on and no change. The falcon will only start if I have the pcv valve disconnected. Where to go from here I’m not sure? But either way, I’m posting from the driver seat and still proud of how far it’s come. Any help is much appreciated! :beer:


:hmmm: on the carb sounds like you have went through everthing internally quite well. Couple more things for you to check the carb's base gasket to make sure you used the correct gasket? The vacuum passages in the base of the carb need to be able to get their vacuum source from the log manifold at the carb mounting base. This base gasket needs to have holes and or slots in the right places so that it can draw Vacuum from the intake manifold and also connecting direct into those carb passages for the SCV. You can check if all the pasages are open in the carb by removing the SCV and spraying carb cleaner in the hole it should travel all the way to the base of the carb. Last thing check for excessive play on the throdle shaft this is usally on the shafts arm linkage side.

Sounds like like the Distribtor's Vaccum Canster works. Yes sucking on the vacuum hose or line works fine. then put your tongue over the end of the hose and see if it holds vaccum and point plate stays advanced. How easy dose the Distribtor's point plate move and return after the vaccum is released? How is the condistion of the Distribtor, is it also clean inside? With the Distribtor cap off when you push the rotor towards the engine block and then pull back towards you do you feel any looseness in the upper shaft? Another test witch can show the condistion of these point type distribtor's by using a Tach / Dwell meter set on the Dwell scale and noteing if the dwell drops off rapidly as you start to rev the engine above idle RPM.

From your description it sounds like the PCV could be malfunctioning there could still be some crud inside so that the ball dosen't seat properly. If you have some carb or parts cleaner let it soak in that for awhile. How is the PCV hose, is it the right type of reinforced hose so it doesn't collapse? Dose the hose have clamps on each of the ends? That's about everthing I can think of right now let us know what else you find, good luck :thumbup: :nod:

Edited after watching your video I think the PCV is probally working fine, see the below post on how to check it.
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #44 by bubba22349 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:04 pm

Hi bones 92, i just now watched your video when it's running is the PCV installed in the engine? I noticed you pulling the vacuum line off at the carb's base and rasng the engine RPM you wouldn't want to disconnect it there as it causes a giant vacuum leak. Hard to tell the details of how this PVC is actually connected to the engine though it looks to be the stock system. On some of these early systems the PCV could be disassembled for cleaning. To test out the PCV take the valve out down at the engine conection leaving the vacuum line hooked up at the carb base then hold your finger over the end of the PCV then release it (try this severial times) you should hear the ball move and bottom out and bouch back and forth. If it does that then it's in good working condition. :wow: :beer: great job that engine looks so much cleaner now and it's sounds like it's ideling pertty good not bad for your budget rebuild. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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chad
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Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #45 by chad » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:52 am

"...you pulling the vacuum line off at the carb's base and killing the engine, you wouldn't want to disconnect it ..."
yeah, that's the diz ur disconnecting not PCV. May B I'm not understanding. If I am plez read the Handbook. It
will describe this "feedback" system (LOM/SCV). These systems R more complicated that the initiate thinks.

Rattling the pvc is not a guarantee. It is a 1st line check. They're so cheep U can try another. (Matched to Y/M/M).

Let us know how U connect ur pcv system when U get there. I think U have a road draft tube which is the 1st pollution control device. If so U don't use both (usually).
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #46 by bubba22349 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:41 pm

Rewatched your video this morning this video is very helpful. Looks like the engine has good vaccum now too. What is your idle RPM set at? This should be 550 to 600 RPM. Looks like the accelerator pump could use some adjusting too. It should be set to the number 2 hole on the accerator pump arm (the upper hole). With the engine off and looking down the carb throat do you see a nice shot of fuel as you open the throdle? If so then you might still need to adjust the timing of this shot to either come in slower or faster to keep it from bogging. So if you have it already set on the number 2 hole (is richer) try the number 1 (is leaner) or vice versa after that the conecting Rod might need to be bent some to further adjust the shot lenght of its timing up or down go slow until you find what the engine likes.

Many people have lots of trouble with understanding how the LOM Distribitors work and how the SCV controls its operation (see the below link for some info on this). This system simply doesn't work like the common vacuum advance systems used on most other engines. Because it uses the combined sources of the engines Manifold Vacuum and also Venturi Vacuum and it is also load senescing. It's possable that there isn't anything wrong with your carb or Distribtor as the advance isn't going to work until your actually driving the Falcon on the road and when the engine under a load. So after you get that carb bogg accelerator pump problem sorted out why not try driving it and see how it does. Best of luck :thumbup: :nod:

The LOM Advance System
ci/Loadomatic.html
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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jamyers
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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #47 by jamyers » Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:49 pm

Offhand, with the pcv inlet hose off, your idle went up - meaning it liked the additional air. So your idle is either too rich, or something squirrelly is going on with the pcv...

Looking at the video, and trying to remember how my '62 used to be set up...

IIRC the pcv valve is screwed into the plate below the carb, right? So in your video, you're pulling the hose basically out of the pcv valve and letting it have all the air it wants?

If so, then...
* these early pcv systems used the old road-draft-tube fitting into the block, and just routed it to a pcv located under the carb.
* the original push-on filler caps are supposed to filter air being drawn into the engine (most have lost their filter media by now)
* these pcv systems don't develop much actual vacuum in the crankcase, mostly just a ventilation system.
so...
* pulling the hose off the inlet side of the pcv valve *shouldn't* have a dramatic effect on the engine, as there's not much difference between crankcase pressure and atmospheric. (now, pulling the pcv valve out of the circuit will mean a huge vacuum leak)

But:
* with the pcv inlet hose off, your idle went up - meaning it liked the additional air.
So:
* check the pcv hose going to the block, it should flow freely if you blow into it. I'm betting it's plugged with goo.
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

bones 92
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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #48 by bones 92 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:07 pm

Thanks for all the advise. I’ll be out in the garage again tonight. It does have a nice squirt of fuel when I hit the accelerator. I can’t remember which hole I put it in. I can’t seem to get it to idle around 600 it dies at anything below 800. Which is where I have it and the timing at 8 degrees before tdc and the dwell at 36-37 it’s tough to see the little marks haha. But I’ll check all of these things tonight as well as recheck for leaks anywhere. Thanks again and I’ll post back up tonight!
1962 Falcon Barn Find: Stock 144, LOM & SVC holley 1909. Freshly "rebuilt" new rings, bearings, and overall cleanup on all engine components. Almost up and running, starts and idles but no vroom vroom. :beer:

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bubba22349
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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #49 by bubba22349 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:10 pm

You can also try out more base timing like 10 to 14 degrees might help it run better to. Ah yes :shock: said the blind man, "Jamyers" is correct I can now see that the PCV is screwed into the intake manifolds fitting at the base of the carb. :nod: :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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StarDiero75
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Re: Budget Rebuild / Rehab

Post #50 by StarDiero75 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:02 pm

One thing to note, econoline mentioned this to me on my thread, a PCV will accentuate a vacuum leak. If you already have one, that makes it worse. On my car I had something similar to where when the PCV is hooked up, then the car idles rough. I finally found my vacuum leak and I'll be fixing that today. Try spraying starter fluid all around the intake and carb and see how the idle changes. If it does, you're leaking.

Good luck,
Ryan
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", 2V converted built 1980 head, Autolite 2100 1.08, Dual out VI headers, Custom curved DUI, 256H Schneider cam 2.5 degrees advanced with dual roller chain, 2" exhaust with H pipe and Flowmaster 40s
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