Oh you are good man lol
Dude that happens to me all the time lmao!
Dude that happens to me all the time lmao!
250 build
- Thread starter 69stang_250
- Start date
Gene Fiore
Famous Member
If you are concerned about losing some bottom end using the 110 lobe separation then advance the cam 4 degrees. 
Thats what I will be doing lol
If you're going after power out of that 250 it seems like the low hanging fruit that pays big time is turbo. But If you're going for optimizing the initial design, as I did with my 250, you're going way overkill and spending a lot more than you need to. And at the end of the day the turbo will beat you if that's what you're after, and I'll come in right behind you ...
It's easy to spend alot of money, but I'd put my purpose built 9.6:1 C/R 1v 250 with 3.7 gear AOD propelled breadbox against anything as a daily and interstate cruiser. Reliability is ensured with not winding the damned thing up to 6K. If you're building it to withstand 7K+ drop the C/R and build it for turbo. Way more bang for the buck and effort from what I've gleaned from this forum and elsewhere
Hell I could put a 4 cylinder ecoboost in a falcon and eat you all for breakfast, lunch and dinner and not spend twice more plug and play or spend the same or less and work it up from a heap yield at the yard and some figuring
It's easy to spend alot of money, but I'd put my purpose built 9.6:1 C/R 1v 250 with 3.7 gear AOD propelled breadbox against anything as a daily and interstate cruiser. Reliability is ensured with not winding the damned thing up to 6K. If you're building it to withstand 7K+ drop the C/R and build it for turbo. Way more bang for the buck and effort from what I've gleaned from this forum and elsewhere
Hell I could put a 4 cylinder ecoboost in a falcon and eat you all for breakfast, lunch and dinner and not spend twice more plug and play or spend the same or less and work it up from a heap yield at the yard and some figuring
69stang_250":3p7se8cg said:
Considering all the helpful input, a '250 build' sometimes daily car parts and machining schedule add up to doing the math for your goal spec'd 250 and then building what you can reasonably afford. A machinist friend helps with my small block six projects and does mostly specialized HiPo work - he cautions: "it's just horsepower per cubic dollar..." .
A 'built' high CR-NA to Turbo/SC can maximize 250 but nothing simple or cheap about a high-powered-up' and drivable complete car package. Continuing in-depth project conversation on '250 build' options adds to my project interests and capability. Hopefully conversation will soon be on the Road tuning .
have fun
. 
I have been re reading each post in here and I am starting to think I have a lot higher hopes and dreams than what I should at the moment with this project.
Non of the post are discouraging at all, but after talking with my fiancee last night about what I need to get done with the car, I need to pull it back a little bit.
At some point in the next year I do plan on seeing just what I can do to make a real HP 250 and see just how much dependable power I can get out of these engines, but for now I need to
come back down to earth for a little bit lol
With that being said, I will be taking all of the information on here and playing the "give and take" game with what I have for the time being.
questions I do have for you guys is how do you make the best of the large piston to deck clearance?
what is a safe CR to shoot for to prevent detonation?
Is 9.7 still too high?
Thanks guys.
Non of the post are discouraging at all, but after talking with my fiancee last night about what I need to get done with the car, I need to pull it back a little bit.
At some point in the next year I do plan on seeing just what I can do to make a real HP 250 and see just how much dependable power I can get out of these engines, but for now I need to
come back down to earth for a little bit lol
With that being said, I will be taking all of the information on here and playing the "give and take" game with what I have for the time being.
questions I do have for you guys is how do you make the best of the large piston to deck clearance?
what is a safe CR to shoot for to prevent detonation?
Is 9.7 still too high?
Thanks guys.
WARNING !! "Opinion only" alert. The following info is based on 0 experience with ford sixes.
IMHO If you are going to do a multi-stage build which will eventually be asked to make serious power and turn high RPM, the first phase should should be to build the most bullet proof short block that your finances will allow. You will need the forged pistons to achieve your final goal so, if possible, get them now. They will probably cost more later and you will have to rebuild the engine again plus if you get carried away and one or more of the stock type plstons lets go you could lose all of your hard work and money. opsie: You may also want to consider cutting back on your CR a bit if it can be recovered later by shaving the head a reasonable amount.
This is not as much fun as dumping in "go fast" goodies but you need a good foundation first.
I envy you being able to do neat build like this
IMHO If you are going to do a multi-stage build which will eventually be asked to make serious power and turn high RPM, the first phase should should be to build the most bullet proof short block that your finances will allow. You will need the forged pistons to achieve your final goal so, if possible, get them now. They will probably cost more later and you will have to rebuild the engine again plus if you get carried away and one or more of the stock type plstons lets go you could lose all of your hard work and money.
opsie: You may also want to consider cutting back on your CR a bit if it can be recovered later by shaving the head a reasonable amount.This is not as much fun as dumping in "go fast" goodies but you need a good foundation first.
I envy you being able to do neat build like this
I agree with Falcons99 and made the same suggestion early on that the short block needs to be bullet proof so you don't take a chance on losing the whole engine with a piston failure.
To answer your question, The relatively small bore along with the aluminum head goes a long way in resisting detonation
I would have no problem with an 8:1 dynamic compression ratio with 91 or maybe even 89 octane gas if the quench distance is between .040" and .050".
If the piston ends up .080" to .100" from the head surface I would only be quessing if I gave you a number and can only say that it will definitely be more prone to detonation.
It doesn't make sense to build a problem into the project.
As you already know the Dynamic Compression Ratio depends on which cam you use and weather it is installed advanced or straight up.
A 280 110 cam advanced 4 degrees with a 10:1 SCR will give you an 8:1 DCR
If the cam is installed straight up then a 10.4 SCR will give you an 8:1 DCR.
To answer your question, The relatively small bore along with the aluminum head goes a long way in resisting detonation
I would have no problem with an 8:1 dynamic compression ratio with 91 or maybe even 89 octane gas if the quench distance is between .040" and .050".
If the piston ends up .080" to .100" from the head surface I would only be quessing if I gave you a number and can only say that it will definitely be more prone to detonation.
It doesn't make sense to build a problem into the project.
As you already know the Dynamic Compression Ratio depends on which cam you use and weather it is installed advanced or straight up.
A 280 110 cam advanced 4 degrees with a 10:1 SCR will give you an 8:1 DCR
If the cam is installed straight up then a 10.4 SCR will give you an 8:1 DCR.
If your budget is getting tighter and the condition of your blocks cylinders and pistions are still decent why not just use a Re-Ring Kit their low cost and that would give you most of the parts (bearings, rings, seals, and full gasket set), plus then install that camshaft kit, with a new timing chain set, a new oil pump, and reassemble it. If it ran decent before chances are very good that it will run really great with the freshened up short block and that new head, then you could use and have some fun with it while your saving up to build another better short block built with all the right parts and mods somtime in the future? Best of luck 
That is a good option bubba 22349. Driving what you have while building up your dream motor is good cause if by chance you blow your performance build you have another block to build. I have a 250 in my garage to build (someday) and a good runner in my Bronco right now. Am actually looking for a third just in case. They are getting hard to find.
I have been enjoying reading about this build.
I have been enjoying reading about this build.
Yeah, wont shin in yer eyes as U drive it (off the hood)!69stang_250":205ra4jh said:
I like the light (silver, white) colors for the maintenance (less washin) but the bronk's black cuz I had alota blk Satin
rattle cans or a bucket full (did it w/rollers as I recall).(BTW: that's pronounced like the pic/emoticon - the guy w/the pointed tail - not the material girls wear)!
Can U tell me the specifics on what U used in the engine bay. I'm about to do that & I think ur scheme is well chosen.
Well I am getting into a budget crunch, but at the same time I do not want to build something that will brake as soon as I punch into it. So I sat down and looked at my car build plan and found a few things that I could do to adjust my budget and build an engine that will perform and last.
With that, I'm gonna be using stock rockers for a while.
Also, I had a talk with the machinest that is doing my head and we had a little "heart to heart" conversation about how long it's taken to get my head done. And with that I may have a job now lol but, he is done with the head and I'm gonna go by and we are gonna cc the combustion chambers Monday. Also he went down on the price of the machine work some because it took longer than he said it would take on the head.
So I will keep y'all posted with pics and info on the progress.
Thank each of y'all for all of the great advise!
With that, I'm gonna be using stock rockers for a while.
Also, I had a talk with the machinest that is doing my head and we had a little "heart to heart" conversation about how long it's taken to get my head done. And with that I may have a job now
lol but, he is done with the head and I'm gonna go by and we are gonna cc the combustion chambers Monday. Also he went down on the price of the machine work some because it took longer than he said it would take on the head.So I will keep y'all posted with pics and info on the progress.
Thank each of y'all for all of the great advise!
If I'm not mistaken it's just the Eastwood chassis black paint. The body shop did that for me and did a very nice job.
Later down the road I'm going to get them to do a boss paint scheme on it with the GT side stripe.
I picked up some ruperized paint form o'reillys that I used on the trans cross member and I love how that stuff comes out.
I will be doing the floor pans with that stuff and also the trunk.
Later down the road I'm going to get them to do a boss paint scheme on it with the GT side stripe.
I picked up some ruperized paint form o'reillys that I used on the trans cross member and I love how that stuff comes out.
I will be doing the floor pans with that stuff and also the trunk.
bubba22349":3r4d47j4 said:
The 250 will survive fine with the 103 deck short fall if its just a re-ring. Crack test the pistons, get new ones if you havee to, but for years drag racers have blisterpack rebuilt 250 engines if they are in good dimensional shape, and no remachining is required.
The cam won't hit the pistons on a stock 250 block.
Best advice ever is:
Budget retractions are part of life. Build what you can afford, and then prioritize better things when circumstances allow.
The 250 is a great engine. Its important to know that its just like Jack Collins said in his Crossflow Chronicles article...its a great engine. There is over 165 hp if you use stock parts. I like all Fords I6's, equally. Have had both, and whatever you have, you don't have to follow actactly what others do. The block decking or piston deck height change doesn't have to be corrected if you don't have funds.
You have it in your hands, you've inspected it and know its condition, its a torque monser. The 3.03 gearbox is likewise the very best gearbox for the money Ford ever made. The manual gearbox saves a lot of low end power loss that automatics suffer.
69stang_250":q709eo9x said:
“…the Eastwood chassis black paint…”
Thanks for that answer
“…picked up some ruperized paint form o'reillys that I used on the trans cross member…”
You may like what many R doing w/the polyurethane ‘bed liners’ better. More protection, more durable, and if using a very low ‘crumb count’ nothing like a ‘bed liner’ (rough surface & non-slippery). I like something by U-Pol (?British co?) called ‘Raptor’. Gotten on-line v e r y inexpensively a near decade ago. Some of the guys over in the 4WD world use it as roll bar, frame and under-tub protectant. U can color it, make glossy or not, etc. The Raptor came w/a "shouts" gun that snaped onto the container (after mixed w/the included catalyst/starter/hardener) and onto the air hose. The size I got ("1 8 ft bed and touch up") was 100 dollars shipped 2 my door.
Xctasy- yes I was looking into that at one point, but with the lip that the piston wear has caused it does need a bore. Originally I had planned on using full aftermarket front suspension and some cosmetic stuff for the interior. A lot, of that was stuff that I think would be more of eye candy and easy of maintenance stuff. So going through that stuff and adjusting my plans, I have more money for the engine. My fiancée will just have to get use to no power steering lol
One other thing I am thinking about doing, but I am a little reluctant to do, is put the 4 speed toploader I picked up for sale. I really don't think I can bring myself to do that though lol
Chad- I will double check with the body shop, but that is what I remember them telling me they use on engine bay and other parts of that sort. Also, one other thing I have been looking at is the lizard skin coating for the pans. Not for under, but inside. I don't know what would be best, that or just putting some mat down. Underside, I will probably put bed liner on it down the road some time.
One other thing I am thinking about doing, but I am a little reluctant to do, is put the 4 speed toploader I picked up for sale. I really don't think I can bring myself to do that though lol
Chad- I will double check with the body shop, but that is what I remember them telling me they use on engine bay and other parts of that sort. Also, one other thing I have been looking at is the lizard skin coating for the pans. Not for under, but inside. I don't know what would be best, that or just putting some mat down. Underside, I will probably put bed liner on it down the road some time.
So, on to the next topic:
Engine build specs:
250 inline
Bore: 3.71
Rods: stock 5.88 w/ARP bolts
Pistons: Auto tech forged w/11 cc dish 1.585 CH
Block: decked to allow piston .010 out of the bore
Deck clearance: -.010
Head gasket: felpro with .050 crush thickness
Head: CI AL 1.84 int 1.50 exh 58cc chambers double springs
Cam: clay smith 280 110 LS 4* advanced
CR: 10.01:1
DCR: 8.01:1
Rockers: rebuilt stock adjustable 1.5 ratio
Intake: CI 4v
Now on to a few new topics.
What do you guys think would be a good all around carb to start off with?
I have been looking at the Holley street avengers and the 600 vac secondary's, but not sure what is a good size to start out with? The calculators I've used say 449 at 100 VE.
Is there a kit out there to make a baffle for our oil pans? Or do I need to get a fab shop to make me one?
Also, is a windage try worth the trouble of making?
Is there anything else I should be looking into now?
Thanks guys
Engine build specs:
250 inline
Bore: 3.71
Rods: stock 5.88 w/ARP bolts
Pistons: Auto tech forged w/11 cc dish 1.585 CH
Block: decked to allow piston .010 out of the bore
Deck clearance: -.010
Head gasket: felpro with .050 crush thickness
Head: CI AL 1.84 int 1.50 exh 58cc chambers double springs
Cam: clay smith 280 110 LS 4* advanced
CR: 10.01:1
DCR: 8.01:1
Rockers: rebuilt stock adjustable 1.5 ratio
Intake: CI 4v
Now on to a few new topics.
What do you guys think would be a good all around carb to start off with?
I have been looking at the Holley street avengers and the 600 vac secondary's, but not sure what is a good size to start out with? The calculators I've used say 449 at 100 VE.
Is there a kit out there to make a baffle for our oil pans? Or do I need to get a fab shop to make me one?
Also, is a windage try worth the trouble of making?
Is there anything else I should be looking into now?
Thanks guys
Chad- does it work good as a sound and heat deadener?
not as good as 'rubberized' (by 10 -15%) but neither is the rubberized product good for both of these, either.
If U want sound lowering product go w/a mass loaded 'mat'.
heat: a shield (the modern alu types) placed near the hot item suspended on sm. 'stilts'. (or another type of mat).
There R also hi tech modern foams but I'm not up on the technology like an auto body guy is - make a new friend (if not having 1 in the field right now). That's what usually wrks 4 me.
I'm suggesting the 'bed liner' for metal protection (sm. dents, scratches, abrasions, rust, & surface protection). I put it on all the "typical rust spots" (each model has em, U know em by heart). Door bottoms and tail gait cuz I pull those prts off (they just happen to be rust prone as well on my model vehicle) and lay them aside (in the woods or on the garage floor) to "go to work" ( they get in the way of access).
Enjoyin yer build, thanks 4 takin me along ~
If U want sound lowering product go w/a mass loaded 'mat'.
heat: a shield (the modern alu types) placed near the hot item suspended on sm. 'stilts'. (or another type of mat).
There R also hi tech modern foams but I'm not up on the technology like an auto body guy is - make a new friend (if not having 1 in the field right now). That's what usually wrks 4 me.
I'm suggesting the 'bed liner' for metal protection (sm. dents, scratches, abrasions, rust, & surface protection). I put it on all the "typical rust spots" (each model has em, U know em by heart). Door bottoms and tail gait cuz I pull those prts off (they just happen to be rust prone as well on my model vehicle) and lay them aside (in the woods or on the garage floor) to "go to work" ( they get in the way of access).
Enjoyin yer build, thanks 4 takin me along ~
