Holley/Weber 32/36 Jetting Tips

[jamyers]

Oh, one more thing regarding the H/W and the famous "Left-Turn Stumble"

It's because the fuel is sloshing over to the side with the Main Jets, and the carb goes WAY rich. At 40mph in neutral with the engine idling, if I do a decent left turn the AFR goes from 14 point something to richer than 10.18 (the richest that the JAW will indicate).

And that's with my fuel level way lower than the specs call for. Looks like I need to bite the bullet and install the junkyard throttle cable and turn my carb float-forward.

 

[jamyers]

Changed the idle jet down to a 50, just to see what it'd do to the AFRs.
I also swapped the electric choke for a manual - nice to be able to pull out the choke and see if a richer mix makes a difference in driveability.

Current setup is:
Primary side:
Idle = 50, with mix screw I don't care how many turns out, maybe 3.5?
Main Jet = 142
Air Corrector Jet = 180
Secondary side:
Idle = 70
Main Jet = 160
Air Corrector Jet = 180

This is a tad leaner at idle and slow cruise.
AFR's:
* Idle = 15.0 - 15.5 for best vacuum and AFR.
* Progression (Off-Idle) = 15.0 - 15.5
* Low-speed cruise (40-50mph) = 15.5-16.5
* High-speed cruise (65-75mph) = 16.5 +/- .5
* WOT = 13-13.5

 

[jamyers]

Another note, regardless of what carb you have - LET THE ENGINE WARM UP for at least 5-10 minutes after the temp gauges come up into range!!!

The AFR's will drop 1 or 2 full numbers from the time the temp gauge first hits 190 and 10 minutes later when everything is fully up to temperature.

 

[66 Fastback]

That is some good information. Can you give some information on the JAW O2 sensor package? I googled and found a website http://www.14point7.com/JAW/JAW.htm
Is this where you got it and what you have? I am a little intimidated by having an exposed circuit board etc just for durability.
Can you offer any insight on th ease of assembling, instructions, total cost etc?
Thank you,
Doug

 

[jamyers]

That's the one. I think you'll find answers to your questions in this thread, but if you don't ask me in the thread below (so as not to hijack this one) and I'll be glad to fill in any gaps.
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44705

In short, I bought a pre-assembled JAW and Display, an )2 sensor off of Amazon (watch for sales), and a bunch of other stuff to hold it all together (a radiosnack box, fan, some wires, nuts bolts, etc) - and I'm sure I've got less than $200 in it even including a false start on a cheapie gauge setup.

I knew nothing about electronics when I started, but I've picked up a good deal in the meanwhile by reading here, the JAW forums, and a couple of electronics websites. Now I are an expurt (yeah, right!).

 

[JackFish]

Current setup is:
Primary side:
Idle = 50, with mix screw I don't care how many turns out, maybe 3.5?
Main Jet = 142
Air Corrector Jet = 180
Secondary side:
Idle = 70
Main Jet = 160
Air Corrector Jet = 180

Which of these is "stock" for the carb you have. Any of them?
Nice to be following a trailblazer. Good job!

 

[jamyers]

Which of these is "stock" for the carb you have. Any of them?
Nice to be following a trailblazer. Good job!

I was afraid somebody was going to ask that (wanders off to find grease-stained notes...)

Aha! Originally as from Tom at Stovebolt:
Primary side:
Idle = 65
Main Jet = 142 (or 143, my eyes aren't that good)
Air Corrector Jet = 180
Secondary side:
Idle = 50
Main Jet = 135
Air Corrector Jet = 195

Which according to my notes was too lean at off-idle (because I was listening to the Weber 'experts' elsewhere) and way too lean at wot.

 

[BIGREDRASA]

OK, Ladies and Gentlemen. With all due respect to the gurus who contributed to this topic, IMHO, it got to be pretty long to view in a unified manner. I'm trying to turn this topic into a reference Sticky that a NewB can follow withour getting cross-eyed. I'd like to have a single doc that can be referenced without having to turn pages and finding out the author altered something. With that in mind, I'm putting together a Word Doc, and will email or PM to the various contributors. I hope I can keep track of all of you. Maybe it can be broken up into sections such as: Basic Carb Information/Description; Theory; Stock Jetting; Jet Change Info; Mounting, Adapters & Linkage; Troubleshooting; What else?

 

[jamyers]

But getting cross-eyed is half the fun! Seriously, I think you've got a good idea there, let me know how I can help. I'd add a Misc section, for odd bits of info like this one: Today I got the right PCV valve for my engine to replace the one with a 90-degree elbow on it that I had on there, and it actually changed the AFR's to for the richer - apparently the one I had let too much air in (whodathunkit?)

 

[BIGREDRASA]

But getting cross-eyed is half the fun! Seriously, I think you've got a good idea there, let me know how I can help. I'd add a Misc section, for odd bits of info like this one: Today I got the right PCV valve for my engine to replace the one with a 90-degree elbow on it that I had on there, and it actually changed the AFR's to for the richer - apparently the one I had let too much air in (whodathunkit?)

When using the 90* PCVs, you have to make sure it's the right spec valve. What I've done is put an elbow on the correct valve to make sure. It does look like you can then change AFR with a PCV, if you have the right meter. You can also screw it up, and never realise what the problem is. Wonder how many problems posted have been because of an incorrect PCV?

 

[jamyers]

...Wonder how many problems posted have been because of an incorrect PCV?

I suspect quite a few. I was really surprised at the difference, at idle the AFR went from 14.8-15.2 down to 13.8-14.2. No difference in driveability that I can tell, but still...

 

[BIGREDRASA]

Does anybody claim to be or know the "Guest" who originated this topic?

 

[JackFish]

The username was MarkP, I thought, but it's signed Chris.

 

[BIGREDRASA]

PM Sent to MarkP.

 

[cobraguy]

I should be getting my jets this week. I'm running a DFV off of a 72ish Pinto that had a 2.0 motor. The jetting was:
Primary Idle .55
Main 132
Air 180
Sec Idle .80
Main 135
Air unmarked appears smaller than 180
I'm using Jaymers #s for a base line.
Primary Idle .50
main 145
air 180
Sec Idle .70
main 160
air 180
I'll run his jetting and dyno it at my sons autoshop class. If all runs well I'll have some numbers to post and I can leave it at that. I'm running a stock 66 200/2.77 with pertronix ignition in a 63 ranchero.

 

[jamyers]

Anybody know the vacuum level at which the power valve opens up?

 

[cobraguy]

I'll see if I can check that since my carb is apart and I have a vacuum pump/tester.

 

[jamyers]

Changed the idle jet down to a 50, just to see what it'd do to the AFRs.
I also swapped the electric choke for a manual - nice to be able to pull out the choke and see if a richer mix makes a difference in driveability.

Current setup is:
Primary side:
Idle = 50, with mix screw I don't care how many turns out, maybe 3.5?
Main Jet = 142
Air Corrector Jet = 180
Secondary side:
Idle = 70
Main Jet = 160
Air Corrector Jet = 180

This is a tad leaner at idle and slow cruise. AFR's:
* Idle = 15.0 - 15.5 for best vacuum and AFR.
* Progression (Off-Idle) = 15.0 - 15.5
* Low-speed cruise (40-50mph) = 15.5-16.5
* High-speed cruise (65-75mph) = 16.5 +/- .5
* WOT = 13-13.5

Same jetting as above, but with the secondary side disabled for the last 3 tankfuls of gas, I'm now averaging 24.4 mpg mixed city/hwy driving. That's up from a previous average of 20mpg mixed. YAY!

(And I can't tell any power difference between the HW5200 on primary-only vs. the Autolite 1100)

Still need to address the just off-idle leaning, and turn the carb floatbowl-forward (and install the cable throttle). It's amazing how much the AFR changes - way rich on left turns, and way lean on right ones.

 

[BIGREDRASA]

Contacted Redline about Carb Base & Holddown stud. This is the reply:

Tony

Glade to be of help with your request and mostly I hope to be of help getting you into genuine Weber products and improved economy and most of all beter performance with no fuel economy loss.

I can help with your needs and i would also like to offer more radical input on the carburetor options you have for these 6 Cyl applicaitons.

The BAD news from our perspective is that this myth still exists and people are still using this carburetor for anything other than an OEM replacement. If your really using the Holley 5200 (note I do not quaify this as a Weber becasue it is not). There is a Holley 5200 a copy of a Weber 32 36 DFEV and there is a Genuine Weber DFEV as used on some of the early Pintos and Caprie's using the european V6 or 1600 ford motor. If it is a Holley or Motorcraft 5100 /5200 it is a copy using the Weber as a referance.

With out going into a long explanation the only similarity in the two carburetors a Holley 5200 and a weber 32 36 DFEV is the external look and throttle rotation and bore size. Past that the design technology differs raticaly.

A Weber in place of your Holley would provide another 10 to 15% in fuel economy and minimum 10% more responce and power.

We would infact suggest that you have picked the wrong carburetor we we do not use the dfev series for these 6 cyl applications. For the size of your motor we would suggest for economy and 15% or so in performance gains you use the 32 36 DGV series carburetor larger air intake and improve effecincy in flow. The proper carburetor for real performance gains and typically similar economy actually improved over the one barrel or two barrel motor craft . The 38mm synchronus carburetor or our kit K550 38 as a conversion would be more like 20% gains in torque and throttle responce more like a complete personality change more like a current version high out put V6.

The typical responce is WOOOOOOOOOOO who knew. I cannot explain the complete change in your cars personality with the 38.

Sooo going forward I would like to go over these options for you at some pont but to your request lets deal with that for now.

we offer both the adapter and the filter kit for your application.

we even have a small rectangular air filter for your application if your not looking to go with the 10 inch round standard 51/8 opening holley style filter. Or a latter factory Ford air filte to maintain a stock look.

The adapter kit is designed to fit the DG series carb with minor modification and a change to the gasket it would work on the DF and Holley versions but it is not by design.

Today will not be great for me as Im traveling to race support but I would like to make a direct phone contact and if you do not mind I may call today or tomorrow to your cell as I get a moment and go over options and see if I can work with sales and customer service to work with you and help with your project and finc out more how we can make some ground with improved information to your forum group and other Ford 6 enthusiasts.

FYI I own a Ford Farmont and a great little two door Mavrick both and can tell you I am a fan of this package and our 38 carb you would not believe the personaity that it changes turns a nice tame grocery gettern in to full time fun with out the expence and hassel of an engine swap and with todays fuel with out the 8 to 10 MPG that goes with that .

Again thanks for your interest in our products and thanks for letting me ramble on in my effort to end a myth called the Holley Weber and inform and uninformed world that there is more to be gained with the genuine Weber parts.



Bud Pauge
Redline Fuel systems and Weber Caraburetor Conversions

Of course, they sell the "genuine" Webers & kits, at 4-5 times the price of Stovebolt's products.

 

[jamyers]

And spelling/grammar apparently aren't a priority, either.

I know I'm being picky, but for Pete's sake - when you can't spell "Caraburetor" and when that's what you do for a living, I get a bit leery of the content of what you're saying.