Hybrid cylinder head. Has it been done?
- Thread starter cook11
- Start date
start taking measurements. its sounds easier then finding hybird type pistons. im sure it can be done but lots of time and heavy work involved once you do find something. and in the end you would have to start with a hi performance head if thats what you are after because no help would come from two of todays economical head type designs together. your best bet is the classic inlines aluminum head theres a lot that can be done with that to start.
I realize that there are Aussie/Argentine cylinder heads out there along with the classic inlines cylinder head. I am looking more along the lines of say using (2 or 3) V6 or (2) 4cyl heads grafted and welded together from either a North American sourced Ford, Chevrolet, Mopar or even........ an import :roll: ........ onto a 200/250ci engine block...Not sure if has been done before or if it is even possible.
as autox suggested, you are going to have to search up the head gasket patterns and compare them to the stock ford small six pattern to see if the head bolt holes and the cylinder bores match up. once you have done that, you can start by finding the heads and cutting them up as needed and welding them together, and then matching the coolant transfer passages and oil passages, to come up with a frankenstein deal that will fit your block. the best thing to do is, unless you enjoy punishing yourself for no real reason, to grab one of the good available heads for the small six, especially the ones that bolt on, or require few mods comparatively, and use those heads.
This will escalate the price of OZ heads & Classic Inlines heads.
As far as I know any supply of any Classic Inlines parts are a big question.
When Mike's will is probated creditors may claim monies owned & put Classic Inlines into bankrupt status???
As far as I know any supply of any Classic Inlines parts are a big question.
When Mike's will is probated creditors may claim monies owned & put Classic Inlines into bankrupt status???
cook11":1zxqz7ng said:
What is your goal in trying to fabricate another head for the 200/250 instead of utilizing one previously mentioned?
Increased flow over the ones tried?
Wanting to use an OHC/DOHC?
Just for the he!! of it?
Remember that the stock head, 250 2V, and the CI alloy head have siamesed exhaust valves on No. 3 & 4, so if using any cam for the small six the valves in the new head will have to match.
The Australia crossflow head has the valves alternating, so you could use one of its cam.
This idea has been discussed on the forum before, but I don't think a head was ever built; you could look at the head from a 2.3L/2.5L I4 found in the Ford Tempo/Topaz/Taurus. This engine is based on the 200, so the cylinder spacing is the same, and the combustion chamber is designed for high swirl.
Making a hybrid head usually stems from the fact that no other option is available for a better head to begin with. Since in the case of the small Ford 6, there are quite a few better alternatives in the cylinder head department from the 2V head, Crossflow head and even the CI head, so there is really no point in making a hybrid head, as you can install on of these others for much less money and effort and likely have better results as well.
There is a way better head, the worked non cross-flow 9 and 12 port versions of the 1963-1985 Holden Red, Blue and Black motor GMH L6, and its many specialist cast-iron and alloy incarnations. CNC Dude here is totally on the page in knowing how much better the ages old Chev L6 design is for in lines. The little Holden L6 is a version of the 4.4" bore spacing Chev head with a 4.08" bore spacing, because Ford Australia and America used it. The Holden 149 and 179 blocks were even first cast in Canada, like the early Ford Falcon engines.
Direct Hit for bore spacing. 1. The GM-Holden has the same bore spacings a the Ford, 4.08".
Although its just a Chev style 9 or 12 port head, such designes cope briliinatly with high lift, long duration cams with three 2 or even 4-bbl carbs. Bascially, a Mini A series that slept with a Chevy L6. No 9 port engine should make the power a Chev L6 does, but the Americans and Australians knew something the Ford boys didn't, and to this day, for its sizes, the 138/149/161/173/179/186/202 engines have more potential power per cube than a Ford Falcon six, because the GM guys worked the pistons, rod ratios and cam profiles to make up for the poorer lifter design and port sizes.
Near miss for bore spacing. The second (2) is the 2001 onwards GM 4200 I6, an Austrlain 2003-2015 style Ford Falcon 4.0DOHC headed engine with a Volvo i5/i6 style block. Its bore spacings are 4.05" uniform, so you can put a DOHC Chevy head on your small Ford six if you ledg some of the combustion chambers, which everyone from Jaguar with its XK 6, to Austin and Morris with the A series, did on its engines.
Near miss by a fraction. Then, with more ledging, there is the 3rd, the common 4.0157" Duratech and SHO and Volvo V8 based on the Yamaha outboard based blocks dating from before 1988...one Aston Martin V12 head is two siamesed Duratech 3.0 heads.
Wide of the mark, but close. There is the
4.Chrysler slant six with an average bore spacing of less than 3.96". That is nearly the same as the
5.1970-2000 Jag V12 60 and
6.1985-1998 AJ-6 15 degree engines. The ledging starts to get too great without a cut and shut, very hard to do with an engine that has a cam in head cylinder topper.
7. The 1948-1996 Jaguar XK-6 (which uses the old prewar Standard L6 bore spacing of 3.8125") is the same average bore spacing as
8.the 1968-2007 L and R series Nissan in line ohc sixes.
9. Then there's the T440R Typhon 4.2 litre inline-6 dating back to the Noughties, but the Poms were never much good at remaining solvent with I6's or not having a bun fight with no-one taking responsibility when there is a realiabiity issues. Unlike you Americans, when (or more likely if ) someone screws up and engine, there is a Posse Impossble rallye and you find the hoodwink, and Fix the "eFfer" Fast. Or sell it the Rover... which had
10. a too big 4.2125" bore spacing for the Buick Oldsmobile Pontiac aluminum 1961 215 V-8.
11 The 1960 Six cylinder 12 port Vauxhall Velox 2.6 PADX that begat theses following items 12, 13 and 14.
(Just being a Europe GM based slant four, I4 or I6 engine with the same bore spacings didn't make all those engines related, but they had the same bore spacing, so there).
The 13th, the Lotus 4.125" bore spacing head of the 907 alloy twin cam engines used in the Jensen Healy came out of the 12th, the slant OHC 4 1967 Vauxhall Victor engines, although it was really Colin Champman who decided to use the Vauxhall engine spacing when GM desgined the sohc Vauxhall V8. Which was scrapped by 1973...the gas crises again.
13. The big 1969-1995 non Family I and II Opel 4 and 6 engine ran a variation on its ohc cam in head short pushrod engine found in the Opel GT. That engine block under the hood of the Lotus Carlton Turbo was an I6 version of the Opel GT engine with twin cams and a turbo. It would be at home on the interstate doin' 180. That'd do it for me, baby! Don't need no double shot with a ZR-1 box and GTO Pontiac Holden axle to stop it goin crazy.
Direct Hit for bore spacing. 1. The GM-Holden has the same bore spacings a the Ford, 4.08".
Although its just a Chev style 9 or 12 port head, such designes cope briliinatly with high lift, long duration cams with three 2 or even 4-bbl carbs. Bascially, a Mini A series that slept with a Chevy L6. No 9 port engine should make the power a Chev L6 does, but the Americans and Australians knew something the Ford boys didn't, and to this day, for its sizes, the 138/149/161/173/179/186/202 engines have more potential power per cube than a Ford Falcon six, because the GM guys worked the pistons, rod ratios and cam profiles to make up for the poorer lifter design and port sizes.
Near miss for bore spacing. The second (2) is the 2001 onwards GM 4200 I6, an Austrlain 2003-2015 style Ford Falcon 4.0DOHC headed engine with a Volvo i5/i6 style block. Its bore spacings are 4.05" uniform, so you can put a DOHC Chevy head on your small Ford six if you ledg some of the combustion chambers, which everyone from Jaguar with its XK 6, to Austin and Morris with the A series, did on its engines.
Near miss by a fraction. Then, with more ledging, there is the 3rd, the common 4.0157" Duratech and SHO and Volvo V8 based on the Yamaha outboard based blocks dating from before 1988...one Aston Martin V12 head is two siamesed Duratech 3.0 heads.
Wide of the mark, but close. There is the
4.Chrysler slant six with an average bore spacing of less than 3.96". That is nearly the same as the
5.1970-2000 Jag V12 60 and
6.1985-1998 AJ-6 15 degree engines. The ledging starts to get too great without a cut and shut, very hard to do with an engine that has a cam in head cylinder topper.
7. The 1948-1996 Jaguar XK-6 (which uses the old prewar Standard L6 bore spacing of 3.8125") is the same average bore spacing as
8.the 1968-2007 L and R series Nissan in line ohc sixes.
9. Then there's the T440R Typhon 4.2 litre inline-6 dating back to the Noughties, but the Poms were never much good at remaining solvent with I6's or not having a bun fight with no-one taking responsibility when there is a realiabiity issues. Unlike you Americans, when (or more likely if ) someone screws up and engine, there is a Posse Impossble rallye and you find the hoodwink, and Fix the "eFfer" Fast. Or sell it the Rover... which had
10. a too big 4.2125" bore spacing for the Buick Oldsmobile Pontiac aluminum 1961 215 V-8.
11 The 1960 Six cylinder 12 port Vauxhall Velox 2.6 PADX that begat theses following items 12, 13 and 14.
(Just being a Europe GM based slant four, I4 or I6 engine with the same bore spacings didn't make all those engines related, but they had the same bore spacing, so there).
The 13th, the Lotus 4.125" bore spacing head of the 907 alloy twin cam engines used in the Jensen Healy came out of the 12th, the slant OHC 4 1967 Vauxhall Victor engines, although it was really Colin Champman who decided to use the Vauxhall engine spacing when GM desgined the sohc Vauxhall V8. Which was scrapped by 1973...the gas crises again.
13. The big 1969-1995 non Family I and II Opel 4 and 6 engine ran a variation on its ohc cam in head short pushrod engine found in the Opel GT. That engine block under the hood of the Lotus Carlton Turbo was an I6 version of the Opel GT engine with twin cams and a turbo. It would be at home on the interstate doin' 180. That'd do it for me, baby! Don't need no double shot with a ZR-1 box and GTO Pontiac Holden axle to stop it goin crazy.
xctasy,
Thanks for the information. I did not realize that Holden blocks were manufactured up here in Canada....I just learnt something....So after reading your post is it safe to assume that a Chevy inline 6 and GM 4200 Vortec head would work with minor mods on the Ford small six block? Because I am not familiar with GM/Holden engines which one of the GM inline six heads would be best to put on the falcon block? Curious to know if any drag racers back in the day swapped the Chevy 6 head onto the Ford block.
I found this website the other day with some good information...
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablersn.htm
Thanks for the information. I did not realize that Holden blocks were manufactured up here in Canada....I just learnt something....So after reading your post is it safe to assume that a Chevy inline 6 and GM 4200 Vortec head would work with minor mods on the Ford small six block? Because I am not familiar with GM/Holden engines which one of the GM inline six heads would be best to put on the falcon block? Curious to know if any drag racers back in the day swapped the Chevy 6 head onto the Ford block.
I found this website the other day with some good information...http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablersn.htm
cook11":20bnzy79 said:xctasy,
Thanks for the information. I did not realize that Holden blocks were manufactured up here in Canada....I just learnt something....So after reading your post is it safe to assume that a Chevy inline 6 and GM 4200 Vortec head would work with minor mods on the Ford small six block? Because I am not familiar with GM/Holden engines which one of the GM inline six heads would be best to put on the falcon block? Curious to know if any drag racers back in the day swapped the Chevy 6 head onto the Ford block.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablersn.htm
i think you misunderstood Xs post. check the bore spacing and you will find that the inline chevy six is much closer to the big ford six rather than the small for six.
Ford small six has a bore spacing of 4.080"
Ford large six has a bore spacing of 4.480"
I remember reading somewhere that a fella from Austrailia "I believe" :roll: .....developed a DOHC head that would work on either the GM/Holden or the Ford I think it was called Krogdahl. Only the water passages needed to be machined....
Ford large six has a bore spacing of 4.480"
I remember reading somewhere that a fella from Austrailia "I believe" :roll: .....developed a DOHC head that would work on either the GM/Holden or the Ford I think it was called Krogdahl. Only the water passages needed to be machined....
The Holden early six cylinder engines (the first 1948 130.5 and then the first 1963 179 ) were minted in North America, and then the machines transferred. That's as far as it went.
There were no USA or Canadain commercial sales from that engine line asside form the first few blocks for sale in Australia, it was technically pre-production. Aussie Falcon seven bearing 170 and 200 engines came intially from a line of special 170 engines realesed in specific US Falcons.
Stans website has some mistakes, you can't copywrite measurements...I'm not perfect either.
However, I got 3.96" for the V12 I measured, not 105 mm.
The Pinto 2.0 OHC had the same bore spacing as the Duratech (4.016 vs 4.0157"), while the Volvo and Lima OHC were indeed 4.173.
The BMW 1500 baased 4cylinder and 6 cyliner OHC engine was about 3.937"
The BOP Alloy 215 was 4.2125 according to my British source, not 4.24, but its close, and second hand info is very important when some one else is clearly wrong. Of course, the Nissan VG30E is 4.25"
There were no USA or Canadain commercial sales from that engine line asside form the first few blocks for sale in Australia, it was technically pre-production. Aussie Falcon seven bearing 170 and 200 engines came intially from a line of special 170 engines realesed in specific US Falcons.
Stans website has some mistakes, you can't copywrite measurements...I'm not perfect either.
However, I got 3.96" for the V12 I measured, not 105 mm.
The Pinto 2.0 OHC had the same bore spacing as the Duratech (4.016 vs 4.0157"), while the Volvo and Lima OHC were indeed 4.173.
The BMW 1500 baased 4cylinder and 6 cyliner OHC engine was about 3.937"
The BOP Alloy 215 was 4.2125 according to my British source, not 4.24, but its close, and second hand info is very important when some one else is clearly wrong. Of course, the Nissan VG30E is 4.25"
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