All Small Six Installing and Degreeing Camshaft - 1983 200lm

[Dr_Dan_WWW]

You set the timing gears at 4 degrees advanced.
If the cam was already indexed at 4 degrees advanced when it was made, then the cam could be 8 degrees advanced.
You will need to check the cam timing for sure.

When I was shopping cams last year I was going to buy a Claysmith. But I was told (here on fordsix) that there may be some variance on Claysmith cams. Rumors we may all assume. But Claysmith was behind in producing these small batch I6 cams. So I looked around and settled on the Howard. We will see what degreeing reveals.

 

[Dr_Dan_WWW]

I attempted to measure the lateral movement (lash?) of the cam. As you will see in the photo, timing gears and chain are in place. The cam bolt and washer are in place and torqued to 45. I tried to move the camshaft laterally and I could not move it. I closely examined the four journals in the bearings looking/feeling for any noticeable off-centeredness. The cam journals appears to be centered in the bearings. Please advise if you believe I do not understand either HOW to attempt to move the cam back and forth, or I didn't perform the test correctly. Thanks.

 

[pmuller9]

The setup looks correct.
What did you use to try to move the cam in and out off the block?

 

[Dr_Dan_WWW]

BUT - here's what kept me awake last night. I think my cam bolt is too short. The new V.I. double roller chain and gears are thicker than the stock cam gear - by nearly 1/16th inch. When I measured the threads on an identical cam bolt ('74), that is just shy of three threads! I am going to go buy a longer grade 8 bolt. ...drag-200stang advised this bolt upgrade above. However, I am afraid I may strip out the camshaft threads, and not to overlook bottoming out, which I can make sure I don't by measuring and being conservative with the bolt length. I used blue threadlock because I had a feeling I would be taking this apart. sure 'nuf.

Will a new and different store-bought bolt violate the "interference bolt" rotation tightness/strength as discussed above?


Couple of more things.
1. How tight is the engine assembly supposed to be at this point (with cam and crank connected and rotating)? I have to use a wrench to get the engine to turn and with not a little force. It's fairly snug. Everything has been rebuilt. So I assuming the assembly will offer some resistance.
2. I bought a shop manual for a 1980's Fairmont. Classic Inlines "Hopping Up The Inline Six" article went off on guys like me not owning a shop manual. Done.

 

[Dr_Dan_WWW]

The setup looks correct.
What did you use to try to move the cam in and out off the block?

Well, at first I used a 10 inch length of 1x2 pine, "kindly" against a lobe. But I chickened out on putting too much force on a lobe. So then I took my 2ft flat screwdriver placed behind the cam gear and tried to leverage any movement with the dial indicator in place. I went around the cam gear attempting to get some movement. I didn't pull too hard because I didn't want to goof up the gear. I thought "if it won't move easily, then it's probably good." I think the cam is snug against the retaining plate and spacer - even if the camshaft thread end isn't flush with the outside face of the cam gear.

What do you think? How hard should I try to get the cam to displace?

 

[pmuller9]

After you pulled the cam gear out you need to push it in and see how much movement is shown on the dial indicator.
If the isn't any movement, then you have a problem that needs to be addressed.
The side play is determined by the difference in thickness between the spacer ring and the thrust plate.
There needs to be at least .002" in side play.

Before you take the bolt and gear off, Now would be a great time to check the cam timing so you know if you have to make changes there also.

 

[Dr_Dan_WWW]

I haven't pulled the bolt n gears yet. I did buy a new grade 8 bolt.
Good point - check the cam timing.

pmuller9 - By "side play" you mean the lateral movement of the cam sliding back and forth from the back of the engine to the front? Not to be confused with any kind of "rattle" where the cam journals can be pulled up and down, side to side - just making sure and clear I understand what you are asking.

 

[pmuller9]

pmuller9 - By "side play" you mean the lateral movement of the cam sliding back and forth from the back of the engine to the front? Not to be confused with any kind of "rattle" where the cam journals can be pulled up and down, side to side - just making sure and clear I understand what you are asking.

Yes. Movement from front to back.
Should be between .002" and .005"

 

[wme013]

Yes play is fore and aft not sideways.

 

[bubba22349]

Couple of more things.
1. How tight is the engine assembly supposed to be at this point (with cam and crank connected and rotating)? I have to use a wrench to get the engine to turn and will not a little force. It's fairly snug. Everything has been rebuilt. So I assuming the assembly will offer some resistance.

With the short block correctly and fully assembled (Crankshaft, Rods, Piston's with Rings, Rod & Main Bearings, Rear Main Seal, Camshaft with Timing Chain and Gears), having the correct Rod & Main Bearing Clearances, correct Piston Ring Gaps, and when using a Neoprene Rear Main Seal instead of a Rope type (which would be a higher amount of turning Torque) it should only take about 30 to 35 Ft. Pounds of Torque to start the Rotating Assembly to turn over. If it takes lots more than that something probably isn't right and there is a chance of doing some damage by forcing it. good luck.

 

[Dr_Dan_WWW]

I will put a torque wrench on it.

 

[drag-200stang]

To test your indicator is mounted solid enough. take a .003 feeler gage, best if you can use it by itself and carefully slip it between the indictor and the washer, may have to pull end of the plunger a little to slip it in, if the numbers do not match the feller gage within reason and in and out repeatable then something is wrong with your indicator setup.

 

[Dr_Dan_WWW]

With the short block correctly and fully assembled (Crankshaft, Rods, Piston's with Rings, Rod & Main Bearings, Rear Main Seal, Camshaft with Timing Chain and Gears), having the correct Rod & Main Bearing Clearances, correct Piston Ring Gaps, and when using a Neoprene Rear Main Seal instead of a Rope type (which would be a higher amount of turning Torque) it should only take about 30 to 35 Ft. Pounds of Torque to start the Rotating Assembly to turn over. If it takes lots more than that something probably isn't right and there is a chance of doing some damage by forcing it. good luck.

I put a torque wrench on the crank gear and it only took 23.4 lbs to consistently rotate the assembly. Thank you for the help.

 

[Dr_Dan_WWW]

To test your indicator is mounted solid enough. take a .003 feeler gage, best if you can use it by itself and carefully slip it between the indictor and the washer, may have to pull end of the plunger a little to slip it in, if the numbers do not match the feller gage within reason and in and out repeatable then something is wrong with your indicator setup.

I haven't thought of testing that. I need to run to OReilly's tonight and get a set of feeler gauges.

Also, I probably need one of those crankshaft turning socket tools. I see they supposedly fit all vehicles.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/comp-cams/comp-cams-crankshaft-turning-socket-tool/com0/4793/v/a/14900/automotive-suv-1966-ford-bronco

 

[bubba22349]

I put a torque wrench on the crank gear and it only took 23.4 lbs to consistently rotate the assembly. Thank you for the help.

That's excellent!

 

[Dr_Dan_WWW]

To test your indicator is mounted solid enough. take a .003 feeler gage, best if you can use it by itself and carefully slip it between the indictor and the washer, may have to pull end of the plunger a little to slip it in, if the numbers do not match the feller gage within reason and in and out repeatable then something is wrong with your indicator setup.

My dial indicator checks out, matching the .003 feeler gauge to .003 on the dial indicator.

 

[pmuller9]

My dial indicator checks out, matching the .003 feeler gauge to .003 on the dial indicator.

So how much camshaft end play do you have?

 

[Dr_Dan_WWW]

So how much camshaft end play do you have?

I haven't checked yet because I wanted to degree the cam and see if it is 8 degrees or 4 degrees advanced. And I don't have that fancy crank turning socket tool yet. But, perhaps I will not wait. The end play issue is a big deal.

 

[drag-200stang]

My dial indicator checks out, matching the .003 feeler gauge to .003 on the dial indicator.

So you are saying with the indicator mounted in position on the end of the cam like you showed and you slid the .003 feller gage in and it gained .003 and when you removed it returned to 0 and then you did not check the end play, or did you do the feeler gage test some other way?

 

[Dr_Dan_WWW]

I did it as you just described: slide the .003 behind the dial indicator plunger while it is against the cam bolt washer. The dial responded to exactly .003 with the .003 feeler and returned back to zero without the feeler. And I have not checked the end play. I will see if I have time tomorrow to check the end play. Hopefully the crank turning socket tool will arrive in the mail, and I can attach the degree wheel and check the cam timing before I remove the cam gear and check for end play.