Offy tri-power stalls when in gear

[thegreyghost]

Hi, the videos of RPM worked here.
Work on the points and take a video of the meter, set on dwell, and raise the RPMS so you can see what the dwell meter does.
Hopefully the dwell will hold steady.
Old distributors have oil cups for lubrication, I wonder if your Mallory does.
Good luck

O.K. so here's where I'm at.

Checked the points this morning and found them both to be set at about 0.015" - remember my dwell was at 34@850 and 27@600. Increased them both to 0.028"
Also noticed the condenser is cracked and probably no good at this point.
Here's my new numbers and videos:

Gap - 0.028
Idle - 800/805
Dwell - 27
Vac - 11"
Timing - 14 BTDC
videos of idle setting and dwell, dwell change with throttle, and one just of the engine running.

https://vimeo.com/306566190
https://vimeo.com/306567570
https://vimeo.com/306566072

Not sure where to go from here - I didn't notice any play in the shaft or movement of the plate. The connection from the coil was a little loose, but not bad. If I didn't mention if before, this dizzy was brand new when it was install on this engine. This car has never been driven since it was rebuilt. I wish I knew more about the rebuild, but details are hard to get.

Thanks for all the support!

 

[chad]

1st vid came thru (no X to look others, concert 2 perform).
May B cuz I'm on vimeo too? IDK, every thing on these puters is behind the scenes now, all automatic so can't tell.
points'n condenser all ways get replaced in pairs... 1 bad do other same X...
Nothing is 'known' in a new-2-U rig. must ck it all.

 

[bubba22349]

Hi, the videos of RPM worked here.
Work on the points and take a video of the meter, set on dwell, and raise the RPMS so you can see what the dwell meter does.
Hopefully the dwell will hold steady.
Old distributors have oil cups for lubrication, I wonder if your Mallory does.
Good luck

O.K. so here's where I'm at.

Checked the points this morning and found them both to be set at about 0.015" - remember my dwell was at 34@850 and 27@600. Increased them both to 0.028"
Also noticed the condenser is cracked and probably no good at this point.
Here's my new numbers and videos:

Gap - 0.028
Idle - 800/805
Dwell - 27
Vac - 11"
Timing - 14 BTDC
videos of idle setting and dwell, dwell change with throttle, and one just of the engine running.

https://vimeo.com/306566190
https://vimeo.com/306567570
https://vimeo.com/306566072

Not sure where to go from here - I didn't notice any play in the shaft or movement of the plate. The connection from the coil was a little loose, but not bad. If I didn't mention if before, this dizzy was brand new when it was install on this engine. This car has never been driven since it was rebuilt. I wish I knew more about the rebuild, but details are hard to get.

Thanks for all the support!

Ok to recap we are looking for these settings

1. Spark plug gap setting of .034 or .035

2. Working on the duel point distribtor's will take some time to get right, the .028 point gap is only a baseline setting to get it runing. Work on one set of points at a time you will need a dwell of 29 degrees for each point set. You will likely need to narrow the point gaps of each set to get this. You can use a match book or bussness card placed between the other set of points to isolate it from the set of points your are working on. After you get each set to 29 degrees then take a reading with both points working, you are looking for the 34 to 37 degrees of dwell. If you get it within this range then you are good to go, if not then some more adjustments will need to be made let us know how you do. Make some notes for yiurself to refer too as this will speed up the process for the next time you need to tune it up.

3. Now check or reset the base timing to 12 - 14 degrees BTDC.

4. After getting these right you be ready for the carb's. Good luck

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, I can't think of any reason why opening up the points from .015 to .028 and you don't see a big change in the dwell angle reading! In post # 30 you have a dwell reading of 31.
That is a big adjustment.
Can it be the spring on the points sets are too weak and do not control the points from bouncing?
Just a guess. It does sound good. How is it on a drive?
Good luck

 

[thegreyghost]

Hi, the videos of RPM worked here.
Work on the points and take a video of the meter, set on dwell, and raise the RPMS so you can see what the dwell meter does.
Hopefully the dwell will hold steady.
Old distributors have oil cups for lubrication, I wonder if your Mallory does.
Good luck

O.K. so here's where I'm at.

Checked the points this morning and found them both to be set at about 0.015" - remember my dwell was at 34@850 and 27@600. Increased them both to 0.028"
Also noticed the condenser is cracked and probably no good at this point.
Here's my new numbers and videos:

Gap - 0.028
Idle - 800/805
Dwell - 27
Vac - 11"
Timing - 14 BTDC
videos of idle setting and dwell, dwell change with throttle, and one just of the engine running.

https://vimeo.com/306566190
https://vimeo.com/306567570
https://vimeo.com/306566072

Not sure where to go from here - I didn't notice any play in the shaft or movement of the plate. The connection from the coil was a little loose, but not bad. If I didn't mention if before, this dizzy was brand new when it was install on this engine. This car has never been driven since it was rebuilt. I wish I knew more about the rebuild, but details are hard to get.

Thanks for all the support!

Ok to recap we are looking for these settings

1. Spark plug gap setting of .034 or .035

2. Working on the duel point distribtor's will take some time to get right, the .028 point gap is only a baseline setting to get it runing. Work on one set of points at a time you will need a dwell of 29 degrees for each point set. You will likely need to narrow the point gaps of each set to get this. You can use a match book or bussness card placed between the other set of points to isolate it from the set of points your are working on. After you get each set to 29 degrees then take a reading with both points working, you are looking for the 34 to 37 degrees of dwell. If you get it within this range then you are good to go, if not then some more adjustments will need to be made let us know how you do. Make some notes for yiurself to refer too as this will speed up the process for the next time you need to tune it up.

3. Now check or reset the base timing to 12 - 14 degrees BTDC.

4. After getting these right you be ready for the carb's. Good luck

Alright.

1. Set all the plugs to 0.35 - Done.

2. Set the primary set to 0.020" (Thanks for the cardboard trick - that saved me a ton of time!) -dwell was 26. re-adjusted to 0.015" and came out around 29 - Done. Set secondary set to 0.015" to start and ended up around 29 as well. Worth noting that running on this set was more erratic than the other set. hunted around a little and dwell increased with throttle.
Running on both sets:
Rpm - ~850
Dwell - 36
timing - 12 BTDC
vac - 10"
https://vimeo.com/306577548

 

[thegreyghost]

Hi, I can't think of any reason why opening up the points from .015 to .028 and you don't see a big change in the dwell angle reading! In post # 30 you have a dwell reading of 31.
That is a big adjustment.
Can it be the spring on the points sets are too weak and do not control the points from bouncing?
Just a guess. It does sound good. How is it on a drive?
Good luck

Possible - I know this dizzy either came with or has available different springs for different curves. Not sure yet which ones are on it.

On a drive it is a complete dog. Throttle makes the engine tone deeper, but not much happens.

 

[bubba22349]

excellent now your ready to set the carb idle mixture. Starting off try to bring down the engines curb idle rpm (throdle blade opening) to close to the 650 rpm range also check that the choke blade is fully open too. Now on the center carb set the idle mixture screw to its highest RPM then turn the mixture screw in 1/4 turn this will be your lean best idle setting. Repeate this on the front and back carb's. Reset the curb idle RPM to 650 in drive with the parking brake set. Check to see what kind of a shot of fuel you get from the accelerator pumps (engine off looking down the carb throat). Test you should be able to take off from a stop stabbing the gas without any stumbling.

Yes these Distribitors have a kit to adjust the advance system it's has a plastic pin used to measure the amount of advance. If you have a good timing light and extra timing marks on your dampner of 50 to 60 degrees (timing tape will work for this too) you can check out the advance curve you have and total advance. On it being a dog, I wonder if the cam was even degreed during its rebuild? Good luck Edited

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, it sounds like you still have work to do.
The little springs you see are to adjust the timing curve.
The flat blade on the points is a spring to hold them closed. Pull the points open with your finger and it should have plenty of tension to return closed.
Good luck

 

[thegreyghost]

excellent now your ready to set the carb idle mixture. Starting off try to bring down the engines curb idle rpm (throdle blade opening) to close to the 650 rpm range also check that the choke blade is fully open too. Now on the center carb set the idle mixture screw to its highest RPM then turn the mixture screw in 1/4 turn this will be your lean best idle setting. Repeate this on the fron ran back carb's. Reset the curb idle RPM to 650 in drive with the parking brake set. Check to see what kind of a shot of fuel you get from the accelerator pumps (engine off looking down the carb throat).

Yes these Distribitors have a kit to adjust the advance system it's has a plastic pin used to measure the amount of advance. On it being a dog, I wonder if the cam was even degreed during its rebuild? Good luck

Ended up with curb idle around 950-980 to get 650 in gear.
https://vimeo.com/306582172
Shot looks O.K., but a little interrupted.
https://vimeo.com/306582032

*** the springs for points seem fine, miss-understood what B RON CO was asking.***

 

[bubba22349]

Good on Idle setting.

To Test it you should be able to take off from a stop stabbing the gas without any stumbling. Yeah looks like that pump shot is really weak you probally should pick up a new accelerator pump (NAPA used to have them separate) or you could get a carb kit, spray can Barrymen's carb cleaner and then replace with the new pump Diafram or better still maybe rebuild that center carb compleately.

On the advance If you have a good timing light and extra timing marks on your dampner of 50 to 60 degrees (timing tape will work for this too) you can check out the advance curve you have and total advance. Good luck

 

[thegreyghost]

Good on Idle setting.

To Test it you should be able to take off from a stop stabbing the gas without any stumbling. Yeah looks like that pump shot is really weak you probally should pick up a new accelerator pump (NAPA used to have them separate) or you could get a carb kit, spray can Barrymen's carb cleaner and then replace with the new pump Diafram or better still maybe rebuild that center carb compleately.

On the advance If you have a good timing light and extra timing marks on your dampner of 50 to 60 degrees (timing tape will work for this too) you can check out the advance curve you have and total advance. Good luck

Thanks for all the advice.
I think I'm probably into the carb next. just took a short drive to confirm. Still choking on the throttle. very unresponsive.

I'll check NAPA and see what they have.

If i'm going to pull the center carb, should I block off the other two with plates at this time and work through all three ?

 

[bubba22349]

Good on Idle setting.

To Test it you should be able to take off from a stop stabbing the gas without any stumbling. Yeah looks like that pump shot is really weak you probally should pick up a new accelerator pump (NAPA used to have them separate) or you could get a carb kit, spray can Barrymen's carb cleaner and then replace with the new pump Diafram or better still maybe rebuild that center carb compleately.

On the advance If you have a good timing light and extra timing marks on your dampner of 50 to 60 degrees (timing tape will work for this too) you can check out the advance curve you have and total advance. Good luck

Thanks for all the advice.
I think I'm probably into the carb next. just took a short drive to confirm. Still choking on the throttle. very unresponsive.

I'll check NAPA and see what they have. If I'm going to pull the center carb, should I block off the other two with plates at this time and work through all three ?

That's going to be up to you if you think it makes it easier for you or not both ways can work. I take things in a step by step process that I have been using to quickly accomplish a good precession tune up for these many years. So if I was doing the job I would just leave the other carb's alone for now and keep them installed. After all with the progressive type throttle linkage you have the end carb's don't even come into play / or use until about half throdle and above. Another thing that can have an effect on operation is the carb's float level setting so besure you check that while your working on that center carb. Good luck you have already made some great progress.

 

[thegreyghost]

Good on Idle setting.

To Test it you should be able to take off from a stop stabbing the gas without any stumbling. Yeah looks like that pump shot is really weak you probally should pick up a new accelerator pump (NAPA used to have them separate) or you could get a carb kit, spray can Barrymen's carb cleaner and then replace with the new pump Diafram or better still maybe rebuild that center carb compleately.

On the advance If you have a good timing light and extra timing marks on your dampner of 50 to 60 degrees (timing tape will work for this too) you can check out the advance curve you have and total advance. Good luck

Thanks for all the advice.
I think I'm probably into the carb next. just took a short drive to confirm. Still choking on the throttle. very unresponsive.

I'll check NAPA and see what they have. If I'm going to pull the center carb, should I block off the other two with plates at this time and work through all three ?

That's going to be up to you if you think it makes it easier for you or not both ways can work. I take things in a step by step process that I have been using to quickly accomplish a good tune up for many years. So if I was doing the job I would just leave the other carb's alone for now and keep them installed. After all with the progressive type throttle linkage you have the end carb's don't even come into play / or use until about half throdle and above. Another thing that can have an effect on operation is the carb's float level setting so besure you check that while your working on that center carb. Good luck you have already made some great progress.

Well, I didn't find anything alarming with the carb. Actually, it was quite clean. Accelerator pump diaphragm looked good. I did notice that the main well tube appears bent ???

Main jet has "612" on it...not sure what size that is yet.

On a separate note, does anyone know what size the SS ball underneath the hexagonal weight is ? Mine is somewhere in my shop - not sure where

 

[thegreyghost]

So quick question. If the check ball was underneath the check weight like it's supposed to be, shouldn't I see the weight in this photo ? At this point, all I did was take the top off the carb.

Hmmm.....

 

[1strodeo]

yes should be a hex weight...did you by chance turn the carb upside down when you removed the top?

edit: nevermind, there wouldn't be fuel in the bowl if you turned it upside down

 

[thegreyghost]

yes should be a hex weight...did you by chance turn the carb upside down when you removed the top?

edit: nevermind, there wouldn't be fuel in the bowl if you turned it upside down

I have the hex weight, assumed I lost the ball. After looking at the photo I wonder if it was ever there.

 

[bubba22349]

The ball I think is 1/8 or 3/16 inch it will seal in the tapered hole in the bottom, the ball goes in first then the weight is on top of it. If the ball is missing then that is probally why the pump shot isn't good. Yes the ball is easily lost and also sometimes wrongly left out during a rebuild. On the main well tube if you can gently try to straighten it again examine it for cracks between the holes. If you have a tube that will slide over it may help in the straitening in any case they are quite soft and easily damaged so be real carful or else you can also just leave it alone. Good luck Edited with adistional info four times last was on Sunday 12:05 PM

How are you doing on the carb?

Holley / Autolite 1940 Carb Manual
http://www.carburetor-parts.com/assets/ ... manual.pdf

In above manual you will find all the basic settings for float level, choke set up, and testing the fuel pump discharge. If you find that the fuel pump discharge test doesn't work as it should, you may have to stake the ball lightly into the carb base. After that you would need use another new ball to replace the one you hammer on fairly sure that these were a 1/8 inch SS ball.

Later on you need to check your total timing and you will need to make some extra timing marks on your Dampener or timing cover at 30 to 45 degrees in about 2 degree increments. You can use a machinists 6 inch steel rule to measure from you existing timing Marks or you can use some timing tape. The "Total Timing sweet spot" will probally be somewhere around the 32 to 36 degree range. Good luck

 

[drag-200stang]

This may or not help you but my tri power tuning issues went away when I screwed filters directly in the carbs and then drove it some...Then tore down each carb all the way, not disturbing the filter, defuzzed the gaskets, cleaned out all passages...After that no more issues.. Some times it took a couple of tear downs to get what was missed the first time.
The filter before the log does not protect the carb from debris that gets rubbed off when connecting up the carbs and whatever that builds up in the lines from the fuel that solidified and then breaks loose.

 

[thegreyghost]

The ball I think is 1/8 or 3/16 inch it will seal in the tapered hole in the bottom, the ball goes in first then the weight is on top of it. If the ball is missing then that is probally why the pump shot isn't good. Yes the ball is easily lost and also sometimes wrongly left out during a rebuild. On the main well tube if you can gently try to straighten it again examine it for cracks between the holes. If you have a tube that will slide over it may help in the straitening in any case they are quite soft and easily damaged so be real carful or else you can also just leave it alone. Good luck Edited a second time on Sunday 8:58 AM

How are you doing on the carb?

Holley / Autolite 1940 Carb Manual
http://www.carburetor-parts.com/assets/ ... manual.pdf

In above manual you will find all the basic settings for float level, choke set up, and testing the fuel pump discharge. If you find that the fuel pump discharge test doesn't work as it should, you may have to stake the ball lightly into the carb base. After that you would need use another new ball to replace the one you hammer on fairly sure that these were a 1/8 inch SS ball.

Later on you need to check your total timing and you will need to make some extra timing marks on your Dampner at 30 to 45 degrees you can use a machinists 6 inch steel rule to measure from you existing timing Mark or use some timing tape. Total timing sweet spot will probally be somewhere around 32 to 36 degrees. Good luck

Made some good discoveries today. I know why main well tube was bent. On two of the three carbs that's where I found the hex shaped weight minus the ball bearing Only the front carb was assembled correctly.

Waiting for a couple stainless balls to show up in the mail now. After that, I hope to have better results to report and be able to move onto the timing.

All in all I'm going to call this a good day!

 

[bubba22349]

:wow: great job in finding those problem areas! You will for sure notice a differance once the carb's are back together correctly. Good luck