Offy tri-power stalls when in gear

[thegreyghost]

Hi, I have to wonder if the glitch in the mechanical advance and the varying dwell are due to an issue with the breaker plate.
I would check the bushings and whatever is mounting the plate to the body.
Good luck

I did check for play in this earlier and was unable to find anything.

***Any chance what I'm seeing is timing chain slop ?****

Curb idle is 95% fixed. I the linkage on one carb hanging up just a tiny bit yet.

You won't likely see a sloppy timing chain with the timing light, but maybe if it's really bad. You can test for bad timing though by hand turning the crankshaft to the TDC mark then take off the distribtor cap and mark the position of the rotor, start turning the crank the opposite direction until the rotor starts to move. The differerance of how much the rotor moves compared to the Crankshaft is how much slop there is in the timing chain. Good luck Edited for more clarity.

So i checked the timing chain with the procedure you mentioned and i get 6 degrees of movement on the crank before the dizzy moves.
Did this several times - 6 seems to be the magic number.
Pulled the plate off the dizzy - everything appears to be moving freely. Looks like i have one heavy spring and one light spring on the weights. I need to do some more reading to figure out the curve.

 

[bubba22349]

The distrib looks to be in really good condistion. Six degrees of movement on the timing chain can have an effect on the camshafts timing events and may effect engine performance when added togeather with the camshafts installed position (unknown at this time) (i.e. If it was degree'ed in to recommended install position). So this is an unknown and if you wanted to find out you would need a degree wheel, a dial indicator to find out the camshafts centerline position, the camshafts specs or grind number would also be helpful. It also might not be significant hard to say without knowing more details. Good luck

 

[thegreyghost]

The distrib looks to be in really good condistion. Six degrees of movement on the timing chain can have an effect on the camshafts timing events and may effect engine performance when added togeather with the camshafts installed position (unknown at this time) (i.e. If it was degree'ed in to recommended install position). So this is an unknown and if you wanted to find out you would need a degree wheel, a dial indicator to find out the camshafts centerline position, the camshafts specs or grind number would also be helpful. It also might not be significant hard to say without knowing more details. Good luck

Well, carb linkage and idle seem sorted out pretty good. Have a repeatable 850 idle. Other values remain the same.
12 degrees on timing, 34/35 combined dwell, 33 degrees total timing.

Decided to take the car down the driveway and punched it - This thing couldn't break the tires free in loose stones!! Doesn't cough, spit or sputter. Just doens't go anywhere.

I feel like I'm missing something major here. What next ?

 

[bubba22349]

The distrib looks to be in really good condistion. Six degrees of movement on the timing chain can have an effect on the can shafts timing events and may effect engine performance when added togeather with the camshafts installed position (unknown at this time) (i.e. If it was degree'ed in to recommended install position). So this is an unknown and if you wanted to find out you would need a degree wheel, a dial indicator to find out the camshafts centerline position, the camshafts specs or grind number would also be helpful. It also might not be significant hard to say without knowing more details. Good luck

Well, carb linkage and idle seem sorted out pretty good. Have a repeatable 850 idle. Other values remain the same.
12 degrees on timing, 34/35 combined dwell, 33 degrees total timing.

Decided to take the car down the driveway and punched it - This thing couldn't break the tires free in loose stones!! Doesn't cough, spit or sputter. Just doens't go anywhere.

I feel like I'm missing something major here. What next ?

I hinted at it in my last post about the camshaft degreeing see the below link for an excellent video on how it's done.

Camshaft Degreeing
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zj-GA494SJQ&feature=plcp

Another area that can have a big cause in poor performance is the Torque Converter, plus from the factory your Mustang had the Duel Range C4 ie (P R N D1 D2 L shift pattern) this is not the ideal C4 for any type performance car. The stock Torque Convertor stall of all 200' C4's is too tight for use with many performance cams, there are number of companies that will do this mod for a reasonable price though. On the Trans the good thing is a newer valve body can easyly be swapped into your early Trans, and the 1967, 1968, or 1969, is a bolt in and it gives you the much improved design Select Shift or (P R N D 2 1 pattern). Along with this I also add a TransGo shift kit plus a Auxiliary Trans cooler this mod is so good to help a Trans live a long life, plus gives a slight boast in economy too, by reducing friction and heat that it's one the first things I do even on a totally stock daily driver. There are some other mods that can be done to the C4 to get tire barking shifts such as swapping in a different Servo. Good luck

 

[thegreyghost]

The distrib looks to be in really good condistion. Six degrees of movement on the timing chain can have an effect on the can shafts timing events and may effect engine performance when added togeather with the camshafts installed position (unknown at this time) (i.e. If it was degree'ed in to recommended install position). So this is an unknown and if you wanted to find out you would need a degree wheel, a dial indicator to find out the camshafts centerline position, the camshafts specs or grind number would also be helpful. It also might not be significant hard to say without knowing more details. Good luck

Well, carb linkage and idle seem sorted out pretty good. Have a repeatable 850 idle. Other values remain the same.
12 degrees on timing, 34/35 combined dwell, 33 degrees total timing.

Decided to take the car down the driveway and punched it - This thing couldn't break the tires free in loose stones!! Doesn't cough, spit or sputter. Just doens't go anywhere.

I feel like I'm missing something major here. What next ?

I hinted at it in my last post about the camshaft degreeing see the below link for an excellent video on how it's done.

Camshaft Degreeing
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zj-GA494SJQ&feature=plcp

Another area that can have a big cause in poor performance is the Torque Converter, plus from the factory your Mustang had the Duel Range C4 ie (P R N D1 D2 L shift pattern) this is not the ideal C4 for any type performance car. The stock Torque Convertor stall of all 200' C4's is too tight for use with many performance cams, there are number of companies that will do this mod for a reasonable price though. On the Trans the good thing is a newer valve body can easyly be swapped into your early Trans, and the 1967, 1968, or 1969, is a bolt in and it gives you the much improved design Select Shift or (P R N D 2 1 pattern). Along with this I also add a TransGo shift kit plus a Auxiliary Trans cooler this mod is so good to help a Trans live a long life, plus gives a slight boast in economy too, by reducing friction and heat that it's one the first things I do even on a totally stock daily driver. There are some other mods that can be done to the C4 to get tire barking shifts such as swapping in a different Servo. Good luck

Good video. I'm familiar with the different types of c4's to some degree.
I'd like to get this out so I can see how it does at the upper end and maybe get a better idea of what's going on.

Starting to wonder how that c4 will behave behind a v8. Ha!

 

[StarDiero75]

Well, carb linkage and idle seem sorted out pretty good. Have a repeatable 850 idle. Other values remain the same.
12 degrees on timing, 34/35 combined dwell, 33 degrees total timing.

Decided to take the car down the driveway and punched it - This thing couldn't break the tires free in loose stones!! Doesn't cough, spit or sputter. Just doens't go anywhere.

I feel like I'm missing something major here. What next ?

I hinted at it in my last post about the camshaft degreeing see the below link for an excellent video on how it's done.

Camshaft Degreeing
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zj-GA494SJQ&feature=plcp

Another area that can have a big cause in poor performance is the Torque Converter, plus from the factory your Mustang had the Duel Range C4 ie (P R N D1 D2 L shift pattern) this is not the ideal C4 for any type performance car. The stock Torque Convertor stall of all 200' C4's is too tight for use with many performance cams, there are number of companies that will do this mod for a reasonable price though. On the Trans the good thing is a newer valve body can easyly be swapped into your early Trans, and the 1967 or 68 is a bolt in and it gives you the much improved design Select Shift or (P R N D 2 1 pattern). Along with this I also add a TransGo shift kit plus a Auxiliary Trans cooler this mod is so good to help a Trans live a long life, plus gives a slight boast in economy too, by reducing friction and heat that it's one the first things I do even on a totally stock daily driver. There are some other mods that can be done to the C4 to get tire barking shifts such as swapping in a different Servo. Good luck

Good video. I'm familiar with the different types of c4's to some degree.
I'd like to get this out so I can see how it does at the upper end and maybe get a better idea of what's going on.

Starting to wonder how that c4 will behave behind a v8. Ha!

Actually, if its the original L6 C4, you'll eventually blow it up with a V8. I always look for V8 C4s as they're much stronger internally than the L6 ones, and as a plus you can put either engine on them and they work fine.

 

[thegreyghost]

Actually, if its the original L6 C4, you'll eventually blow it up with a V8. I always look for V8 C4s as they're much stronger internally than the L6 ones, and as a plus you can put either engine on them and they work fine.

Good to know!

From what I remember on this one - It was "supposedly" gone over and either a trans-dapt or BM shift kit was added. I can see the adjustable modulator at least has been installed.
Anything to check there?

 

[bubba22349]

I'm familiar with the different types of c4's to some degree.
I'd like to get this out so I can see how it does at the upper end and maybe get a better idea of what's going on.

Starting to wonder how that c4 will behave behind a v8. Ha!

So dose it still have a duel range valve body in it? To my knowledge TransGo was only company that ever made a shift kit for the duel range valve body, so you likely don't have a shift kit than. Again these C4's in stock un modded form aren't a good choice for any kind of a performance build. The adjustable vaccum modulator can be used to fine tune the shifts.

When you install a V8 in front of that C4 it will likely last a bit longer than the rear axle will!

 

[thegreyghost]

I'm familiar with the different types of c4's to some degree.
I'd like to get this out so I can see how it does at the upper end and maybe get a better idea of what's going on.

Starting to wonder how that c4 will behave behind a v8. Ha!

So dose it still have a duel range valve body in it? To my knowledge TransGo was only company that ever made a shift kit for the duel range valve body, so you likely don't have a shift kit than. Again these C4's in stock un modded form aren't a good choice for any kind of a performance build. The adjustable vaccum modulator can be used to fine tune the shifts.

When you install a V8 in front of that C4 it will likely last a bit longer than the rear axle will!

I don't remember ever hearing that name, so you are probably correct. Best I can tell it acts like a dual range transmission. It had a B&M mega shifter installed and it's still not adjusted quite right yet.

I know the rear end is different than stock but I'm not sure what all was done. I always thought the PO installed a 9", but that's not the case. It looks like the original 8, Posi of some sort, but then I wonder why the 5 lug rear axles ? ???

 

[chad]

'posi' & 'ratio' can B checked w/a few 'in the air' rotations, counting & observation.

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, as mentioned, give a wheel one full turn and count how many times the drive shaft spins.
If the drive shaft spins 3 1/2 times, you have
3.5 to 1 rear end ratio.
If both tires spin the same way you have a
"Posi" rear. If the wheels spin opposite directions, you have an open rear.
Good luck

 

[thegreyghost]

Hi, as mentioned, give a wheel one full turn and count how many times the drive shaft spins.
If the drive shaft spins 3 1/2 times, you have
3.5 to 1 rear end ratio.
If both tires spin the same way you have a
"Posi" rear. If the wheels spin opposite directions, you have an open rear.
Good luck

Yeh, I guess I didn't word that very well. I know it's a posi unit with 3.50 gearing. I just wasn't sure what posi unit it was. I'm more of an off-road guy. Used to having a selection of lockers to chose from. My guess would be this is a trac-Lok.

I'm just not sure why the 5 lug rear axles? Why would you get rid of the original 4 lug ones if you were going to keep the 8"?

 

[bubba22349]

I'm familiar with the different types of c4's to some degree.
I'd like to get this out so I can see how it does at the upper end and maybe get a better idea of what's going on.

Starting to wonder how that c4 will behave behind a v8. Ha!

So dose it still have a duel range valve body in it? To my knowledge TransGo was only company that ever made a shift kit for the duel range valve body, so you likely don't have a shift kit than. Again these C4's in stock un modded form aren't a good choice for any kind of a performance build. The adjustable vaccum modulator can be used to fine tune the shifts.

When you install a V8 in front of that C4 it will likely last a bit longer than the rear axle will!

I don't remember ever hearing that name, so you are probably correct. Best I can tell it acts like a dual range transmission. It had a B&M mega shifter installed and it's still not adjusted quite right yet.

I know the rear end is different than stock but I'm not sure what all was done. I always thought the PO installed a 9", but that's not the case. It looks like the original 8, Posi of some sort, but then I wonder why the 5 lug rear axles ? ???

TransGo was the originator of these Shift Kits! I grew up & lived a couple blocks from this company, bought my kits directly from them, the owner Gil Younger (a transmission genius) also was a Ford Performance advisor. "There may be your problem to the lack of performance" if it still has a duel range valve body that is trying to work with the B&M mega shifter this would be a miss match of parts as the shifter is designed to work with the newer valve bodies used in all later model cars i.e. P R N D 2 1. With a 3:50 Posi rear gear this car should accelerate excellent! With a duel range depending on the shifters pistion you could be starting off in second (2) that would make the car very doggy in that case the later model valve body is the only way to go.

Yeah a 9 inch rear in a 1965 or 66 Mustang is as rare as Hens teeth, only a very few rare factory Hi Performance cars had them or you would needed to custom build one to fit. Stock the 200 six Mustang rear axel is 4 lug it's a 7 1/4 inch intriccal type axel that has a bolt on rear cover. The 289 V8's were the only ones that used an 8 inch "with drop out center section type axle" with 5 lugs the 1965 & 66 Mustang V8 axles are a bolt in swap so that's what you likely have. In any case your all set as the 8 inch can Handel lots of power. Edited

 

[thegreyghost]

So dose it still have a duel range valve body in it? To my knowledge TransGo was only company that ever made a shift kit for the duel range valve body, so you likely don't have a shift kit than. Again these C4's in stock un modded form aren't a good choice for any kind of a performance build. The adjustable vaccum modulator can be used to fine tune the shifts.

When you install a V8 in front of that C4 it will likely last a bit longer than the rear axle will!

I don't remember ever hearing that name, so you are probably correct. Best I can tell it acts like a dual range transmission. It had a B&M mega shifter installed and it's still not adjusted quite right yet.

I know the rear end is different than stock but I'm not sure what all was done. I always thought the PO installed a 9", but that's not the case. It looks like the original 8, Posi of some sort, but then I wonder why the 5 lug rear axles ? ???

TransGo was the originator of these Shift Kits! I grew up & lived a couple blocks from this company, bought my kits directly from them, the owner Gil Younger (a transmission genius) also was a Ford Performance advisor. "There may be your problem to the lack of performance" if it still has a duel range valve body that is trying to work with the B&M mega shifter this would be a miss match of parts as the shifter is designed to work with the newer valve bodies used in all later model cars i.e. P R N D 2 1. With a 3:50 Posi rear axel this car should accelerate excellent! With a duel range depending on the shifters pistion you could be starting off in second (2) that would make the car very doggy in that case the later model valve body is the only way to go.

Yeah a 9 inch rear in a 1965 or 66 Mustang is as rare as Hens teeth, only a very few rare factory Hi Performance cars had them or you would needed to custom build one to fit. Stock the 200 six Mustang rear axel is 4 lug it's a 7 1/4 inch intriccal type axel that has a bolt on rear cover. The 289 V8's were the only ones that used an 8 inch "with drop out center section type axle" with 5 lugs the 1965 & 66 Mustang V8 axles are a bolt in swap so that's what you likely have. In any case your all set as the 8 inch can Handel lots of power.

Well that makes sense then. I thought they all came with 8's except the hi-po. Didn't realize there was a 7 1/4.
Yeh, I don't think the rear will be the weak link at this point.
I assume all the way back on the shifter with either valve body is 1st gear? That's where I usually put it to test with.

 

[bubba22349]

I have never really understood why people install some of these aftermarket shifters in the 1965 and 66 Mustangs! When the stock Mustang shifters used from 1967 up are so much better made (Bullet Proof) will bolt right in and still look factory stock.

Yes that should be true however if the shifter isn't adjusted correctly maybe not, might be worth crawling under there and checking out the shift lever position to be sure. While you under there checking you might look for the Trans ID tag on the Servo cover and take a few pictures of the linkage and everthing.

Another way you could test it is put it the first position after N and leave it next than try second (mid) position and leave it, in one pistion it will start in low and up shift to 2nd and 3rd, in the other it will start out in second and then shift up to 3rd if it dose this last one than its a duel range. Good luck edited

 

[thegreyghost]

I have never really understood why people install some of these aftermarket shifters in the 1965 and 66 Mustangs! When the stock Mustang shifters used from 1967 up are so much better made (Bullet Proof) will bolt right in and still look factory stock.

Yes that should be true however if the shifter isn't adjusted correctly maybe not, might be worth crawling under there and checking out the shift lever position to be sure. While you under there checking you might look for the Trans ID tag on the Servo cover and take a few pictures of the linkage and everthing.

Another way you could test it is put it the first position after N and leave it next than try second (mid) position and leave it, in one pistion it will start in low and up shift to 2nd and 3rd, in the other it will start out in second and then shift up to 3rd if it dose this last one than its a duel range. Good luck edited

Looks like the original "Z" servo. Linkage looks typical to me ?

 

[bubba22349]

Tag number seems to indicate that it's a duel range C4 may be original to the car. The linkage is a colum shifter type (i.e. It's pointing down) this not tipical for a Mustang it may of come with the B & M shifter kit though. Is that above downshift cable hooked up to the throdle linkage still?

 

[thegreyghost]

Tag number seems to indicate that it's a duel range C4 may be original to the car. The linkage is a colum shifter type (i.e. It's pointing down) this not tipical for a Mustang it may of come with the B & M shifter kit though. Is that above downshift cable hooked up to the throdle linkage still?

Yes and Yes. I believe, at least according to the instructions for the B&M shifter that the down pointing bracket came with the shifter.

The downshift cable looks to be brandy new and is hooked up to the throttle linkage.

 

[bubba22349]

that's good then on the downshift cable, plus your good on your tune up for now, with the 3:50 gear in 8 inch Posi rear also great! To unlock all the performance potential that's there we now are back to not knowing what cam grind and if it's degreed properly, plus the Torque Convertor and the Valve Body. Do you have a tach inside car or you could also hook up your dwel tach meter were you can see it? Do you know how to do a Torque Convertor stall test? Good luck

 

[thegreyghost]

that's good then on the downshift cable, plus your good on your tune up for now, with the 3:50 gear in 8 inch Posi rear also great! To unlock all the performance potential that's there we now are back to not knowing what cam grind and if it's degreed properly, plus the Torque Convertor and the Valve Body. Do you have a tach inside car or you could also hook up your dwel tach meter were you can see it? Do you know how to do a Torque Convertor stall test? Good luck

I have a tach I can hook up for the test. One question should I perform the test in all 3 gears ?