Removing Lifters, without removing head.

[Anonymous]

Folks.
I was toying with the idea of replacing the noisy lifters in the XF.

I was talking to discokin6, and he mentioned a tool that enables you to remove the lifters without having to remove the head.

Any one had any experiences or want to share their opinions on this?

-Mike.

 

[addo]

I know you can't do this on pre-crossflows. Surprised you can on the later ones. Turning the motor upside down (out of the car is best) and removing the cam, then pulling them from below, was the only way I could think of.

Gummy lifter bores won't be changed by the act of replacing the lifters. Not just lash developing in the valvetrain, is it?

Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

Mike,
I take it that you are talking about a crossflow.
The iron head cannot remove the lifters with the head on but the alloys can.
Determine if it is noisy lifters or a worn cam. If the cams worn dont waste time on only the lifters.
With the engine at normal operating temperature are the tappets noisy all the time?
Or does the noise come and go?
Hold the engine speed at around 1500/2000 rpm and if the noise comes and goes the camshaft lobes are worn and replacing the lifters would be a waste of time.
If you still want to do the job post here and I can help with some information.
Noel

 

[Anonymous]

cheers lads.
Yer, im refering to the crossflow.
The sound is a constant ticking, it doesnt come and go.
What ideas did you have in mind noel?
-Mike.

 

[Anonymous]

A constant ticking, ehh?

First why not take the valve cover off and check your rocker arms, if there is play in them just tighten them up.

Remember to do this, by starting at cylinder #1 at TDC and adjust (this is if you have a hydraulic cam). This is how I did it for a 67 200 w/adjustable rockers, although with the Crossflow I may be wrong.

Just thougth I'd throw this out before you went after replacing the lifters(especially if you don't have to).
Chris Harris

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, i think i have located the problem.

I took the rocker cover off, and stumbled across a loose rocker.
Although the engine wasnt at TDC i thought i would try to tighten it, the bolt holding the the rocker is dead tight, therefore no tightening whatsoever.

Am i not able to tighten it because it wasnt at TDC, or that particular valve was open etc?

ideas?

-Mike.

 

[Anonymous]

Mike,
The crossflow engine is a non adjustable valve train. If you found a loose rocker then tighten it up, check all the others are tight and yes that is all that is required.
The engine could be run without the rocker cover to see if the noise is rectified but I am sure that you have located and rectified the problem.
Noel.

 

[addo]

Well, you may have a collapsed lifter, or bent rocker arm. If the rocker arms are on press-in studs like a Windsor, these can pull loose. Maybe a seat has dropped and the valve is sticking open? Or just a sticky valve? Was it #5 exhaust?

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, let me think...

Noel, the rocker was as tight as physically possible, and it still had a decent amount of play in it.

Addo, if my memory serves me correctly it was #4 on the exhaust side. Why do you ask? common trait?

I will pull it apart again tomorrow after work, and see how we go.

-Mike.

 

[addo]

Well, number 5 pot seems to be a common cause of grief, even between brands. It's likely due to cooling issues. Having said that, exhaust valves do run hotter, and IIRC can get sticky on alloy head motors. The rockers look like (remember, I don't know much about these heads :roll: ) the hold-down bolts sit on a saddle when they bottom out. So if this is tight, then you're back to one of my other suggestions - not a loose stud.

Is the valve sitting up to the regular height? You depress it 400 thou and it springs back? If so, then you have either a stuck lifter, or trashed cam/lifter.

Adam.

 

[Anonymous]

As I mentioned before, it may also be gunk stuck in the lifter. May or may not be the case, but using cheap supermarket oil, and performing frequent (weekly) oilchanges usually removes the varnish that can cause them to tick.

I was speaking to Fingers ages ago, and he passed a comment on the tool thats available.. Since I've got a ticky lifter or two, I'd also like to know what the situation with lifter removal..

 

[Anonymous]

Mike,
I thought you said the bolt was loose.
If ther is freeplay with the bolt tight, then there is a problem in the valve train.
Worn cam and lifter comes to mind coz it is so common.
With the rocker, pushrods out the lifter can be lifted out of the bore above the cam.
But usually due to a gum or varnish build up this is difficult.
There is a tool that I have used, this has expanding levers at the end and when squeezed the levers lock into the circlip ring of the lifter.
This tool may be difficult to find.
A home made tool can be improvised with wire. Strong stuff like coat hanger wire.
Flatten the end with a hammer and bend a lip.
Fit this into the crclip lip in the lifter and lift.
With a new engine the lifter will lift straight out.
With a used engine the lifter will have to be worked up and down to break off the build up at the bottom to allow the lifter to be removed.
Usually a screw drivee is used to drive the lifter back down and the tool is used to lift the lifter up.
This can take 5/10 minutes each lifter if oil changes are infrequent any time in the cars life.
Some more reading!!!!!!!
You will be looking for unusual wear i.e. taper wear or ground down and not a shiney surface on the cam sahft contact area.
Start with the one with freeplay/looseness.
Noel.

 

[Anonymous]

Just on that tool Backlash was talking about I brought one from supercheap when I replace my lifters, cant remember the price but was worth its weigth in gold

Joip

 

[Anonymous]

when i popped a pushrod out in my 250 one of the guys i work with had this tool were all refering too..... i dont think its expensive or even that hard to find.... he managed to take my lifter out in a matter of seconds.... but he did make comment that they are usually a real huge pain in the rear end!! so you might end up haveing fun with it

ive got a strange noise comeing from my motor too, i thought originally it was a lifter, but it sounds too clunky for that... ill take it back to my mechanic and make him fix it

best of luck mikey boy!

-matt-

p.s. car still looks sweet man, after seeing ya at the roundabout on monday!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Matt.
talking of seeing each other around..
Did you see me following you home on my bike the other day, i gave you a bit of honk as i went by?
-Mike

 

[Anonymous]

To get a lifter out use a piese of coat hanger wire. Bash it flat on the end with a hammer of a vice or something solid then bend about 5mm of the flattenned bit over to 90°. This sharp flat bit can hook into the top lip of the lifter to pull them out. If they have been in for ages they might be worn and require the proper tool which is just a similar version of my coat hanger wire with a prong out either side and a lever that squeexes the two prongs together to allow the prongs to hook in either side of the lifter.

Before you change the lifter check the rockers which are loose.

Remove the rocker and look at the surface on the underside of the pedastle part. The pedastle will have a half moon shaped top which the curved surface fit snug into the pressed rocker. This wearing surface should have a oil groove in it. If the groove is worn you will see that it is getting very thin or gone completely. IF the rocker pedastle is worn then get a new rocker and pedastle pair. If you replace a rocker then check that the hole up the middle of the pushrod is not blocked also. That is likely to be the reason the rocker is worn if it is.

 

[xt falcon]

i had this problem with my motor when i first got and changed the lifters and rockers to roller, but noticed that the thred in the pedistal was not perfict. so i tapped it with no improvement and ended up bending the push rods. so i got helicoils put in and now it is fine. i think a littel to many rpm can push the rocker up a bit more than they are made to be lifted. which in turn pushes the bolt holding them which stretches the thred in the pedstal(only alloy). this can make it fell as if you can't tighten anymore because you affectivly have to different pitches of thred which jam together making them very tight. thats only my thoughts.
Aaron

 

[Anonymous]

ahhhh that was you ay michael!!! i didnt know you had ya bike licence..... ive been planning on getting minefor the past 2 years!!! hahahahah when ya beeped as ya went past i was cursing at ya cos i didnt know y ya beeped at me hahahahahah... oh well now i know!
cya round

-matt-

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to dig up an old topic.
But, i just got around to trying to remove the lifter..
bloody hell, whhat a job..
i took the rocker off, and removed the pushrod. But i still cant seem to get the damn lifter out. I tried the old coat-thanger trick and was able to move the lfiter up and down abit, but just couldnt actually get it out of the bore.
2 hours later i end up hear...
me thinks i might have to get me a proper tool..
unless anyone has any other ideas.
-Mike

 

[Anonymous]

Not any more ideas but it will take some time too get them all out.
Two hours is not unheard of.
Buy the tool, have a long screw driver and a hammer.
Lift the lifter out as far as you can.
What you want to do is break off the build up on the bottom of the lifter so that it can be extracted from the lifter bore.
The lifter is a tight fit.
Just keep working the lifter up and down.
Sometimes it will get stuck and cant be pushed down. This is good indicating that it is near removal. Use the hammer and screwdriver to push the lifter back down and keep working it up and down to remove.
Yes a pain in the backside! but has to be done.
Noel.