Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40,
mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry
rzcrisis, DoctorC, jamyers, Motorboy, fastpat, Silverback280, chad


<<< New Site Update >>>

My Budget 250 build

Moderator: Mod Squad

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4906
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

My Budget 250 build-A/C bracket

Post #151 by chad » Wed May 15, 2019 10:26 pm

fun, fun, fun!

I no U will get there frm seein whatja do.

Sanden is beddah den York (size wise) Ck Wolwo's..
X may have an ider or 2.
I C a nice low right side (rare, aftr mrkt?) pass side bracket on another member here's.
Bulky but compact, has extensive frnt'n back armature...
Not sure it will help but a thought (of mine 4 U)...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #152 by lavron » Fri May 17, 2019 11:43 pm

Few minutes today I built a throttle linkage rod, ok with it to a certain extent but really don't like the center link I built, that is ok there is only about $2.50 in parts there.

Image

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #153 by lavron » Mon May 20, 2019 5:26 pm

Some more work on my 3x2 intake pattern, pretty close to finished except for some sanding and light fill.

Image

Going to board mount it and build three moulding flasks so I can try to pour three in case there are mistakes.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4906
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

sand casting 3 intakes

Post #154 by chad » Mon May 20, 2019 10:17 pm

tryin 2 catch up on the process -
U covered the wood w/plastic?
That will be placed in the sand, B burned away by the melted ingots pored in?
How will U vent the expanding gasses of burnt plastic as they try'n escape out?
Will the wood B remover 1st?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #155 by lavron » Tue May 21, 2019 12:04 am

chad wrote:tryin 2 catch up on the process -
U covered the wood w/plastic?
That will be placed in the sand, B burned away by the melted ingots pored in?
How will U vent the expanding gasses of burnt plastic as they try'n escape out?
Will the wood B remover 1st?


This is a wooden pattern (that and bondo), in the last picture it is just been primed, I haven't quite finished it.

It is a split pattern, the parting line is near the top just below the carb flanges, it will be sand moulded and the pattern removed before being cast in aluminum, I will show some pictures once I get it mounted on the moulding board and the flasks built.

After the casting is done it will be machined on the carb mount surface and 6 bolts/screws will hold it on. If tolerances are tight enough I will use RTV to seal between the surfaces, if not I will probably bed the aluminum intake with high temp epoxy and then RTV.

I could probably say the pattern was done right now (good enough for sand casting) but I can be super picky about stuff and want to even some things up and I think I have one spot with negative draft on the top I need to fix.

I wish I had made an impression of the firing order cast on top of the intake before I ground it off because I think it would be neat to cast it on top of the flat between carb 1 and 2, make it look factory"ish" :roll:

I did plane off the top of the lower pattern today slightly to make the profile thinner in case I need to use the fiber spacer under the carbs, the valve cover side really only has to clear the fuel line connections and the only close one is the front where it runs close to the PVC valve.

I was wondering, is the port in the manifold, just below the carb, the PVC connection? (where I have the cutout on my pattern)

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4906
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

casting an intake

Post #156 by chad » Tue May 21, 2019 8:37 am

lavron wrote:I was wondering, is the port in the manifold, just below the carb, the PVC connection? (where I have the cutout on my pattern)

wasn't that an 'everything' port?
vac breaks, pcv, dizzy, etc ? I've seen a brass fitting tube or barrel-like thing w/3 or 4 nipples on it there...
not sure~
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
Econoline
Registered User
Posts: 1301
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Anacortes, WA

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #157 by Econoline » Tue May 21, 2019 10:17 am

That's the aux manifold port. The carbs usually have a nipple for the pcv.
It ain't gonna fix itself

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9186
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #158 by bubba22349 » Tue May 21, 2019 4:48 pm

lavron wrote:
chad wrote:tryin 2 catch up on the process -
U covered the wood w/plastic?
That will be placed in the sand, B burned away by the melted ingots pored in?
How will U vent the expanding gasses of burnt plastic as they try'n escape out?
Will the wood B remover 1st?


This is a wooden pattern (that and bondo), in the last picture it is just been primed, I haven't quite finished it.

It is a split pattern, the parting line is near the top just below the carb flanges, it will be sand moulded and the pattern removed before being cast in aluminum, I will show some pictures once I get it mounted on the moulding board and the flasks built.

After the casting is done it will be machined on the carb mount surface and 6 bolts/screws will hold it on. If tolerances are tight enough I will use RTV to seal between the surfaces, if not I will probably bed the aluminum intake with high temp epoxy and then RTV.

I could probably say the pattern was done right now (good enough for sand casting) but I can be super picky about stuff and want to even some things up and I think I have one spot with negative draft on the top I need to fix.

I wish I had made an impression of the firing order cast on top of the intake before I ground it off because I think it would be neat to cast it on top of the flat between carb 1 and 2, make it look factory"ish" :roll:

I did plane off the top of the lower pattern today slightly to make the profile thinner in case I need to use the fiber spacer under the carbs, the valve cover side really only has to clear the fuel line connections and the only close one is the front where it runs close to the PVC valve.

I was wondering, is the port in the manifold, just below the carb, the PVC connection? (where I have the cutout on my pattern)

See Ya,
Mike


Hi Mike if you look at your above Tri Power mockup picture (reposted in the link below) the carb on the left rear has a capped off vacuum port on the base this is a PCV port. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77057&start=150#p619527
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #159 by lavron » Tue May 21, 2019 5:02 pm

Thanks you guys, I will just cap the port in the manifold until/if there is a call for it, I have no power brakes, etc (I like my stuff manual). If it had like a vacuum gauge attached to it what would it show, overall manifold vacuum?

It will take me a bit to figure out what all the ports on those carbs are, there are a bunch of them but I figure most will end up blocked off I am sure many from the '80s were smog control and I know one or two are for an altitude control I am sure one is the vacuum advance. It may take me a while but I will get it once I start using them, there is a big port right in front part of the float bowl (around the corner from the fuel line connection) that I thought was possibly for some sort of fuel/vapor canister?

So used to the Autolite 1100 :roll:

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9186
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #160 by bubba22349 » Tue May 21, 2019 5:40 pm

Yes anything that's tapped into the intake manifold below the carb's throdle blades would read full manifold vacuum. :hmmm: I might be wrong on that vaccum tap on the carb's base its hard for me to tell its size. If it's smaller than a 3/8 inch hose fitting than it isn't for PCV, also the porting in the carb base would be going into the throdle bore below the throdle blade too. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
powerband
FSP Moderator
Posts: 1995
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:45 pm
Location: Mid Hudson Valley - \H/

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #161 by powerband » Tue May 21, 2019 8:38 pm

was wondering, is the port in the manifold, just below the carb, the PVC connection? (where I have the cutout on my pattern)

... believe all PCV's used the manifold to carb alum. OEM adapter. Lower manifold port would be used for Auto tranny Modulator vacuum and accessory vacuum taps for vacuum wipers, coolant switched advance emissions 2-way diaphragm dist,' etc... . Holley 2300 2bbl, 4bbl , AFB, etc have 3/8 vac port integral.

Put your finger over ported vacuum - there's almost no vacuum (and no advance) at idle with throttle blade in position for that port. Manifold vacuum to distrib' adds advance at idle.

have fun


. Image ,,
Image

AUTOMATIC:
Image
"Take time to stop and smell... The roadkill..."

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4906
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

multiple nipples on log / carb

Post #162 by chad » Tue May 21, 2019 10:15 pm

"...Holley 2300 2bbl, 4bbl , AFB, etc have 3/8...(PCV)...vac port integral. ..."
I believe my RBS (carter) also has it up on the carb. A male 'peg' sitting out on the side there.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #163 by lavron » Tue May 21, 2019 11:39 pm

Here is the big port I was talking about on the leading edge of the carb, you can see the fuel port facing towards us and it is 90 degrees and below it.

Image

Doesn't the PCV valve just hook to the air cleaner as well? I guess this is what I get for just keeping the road draft tube on my 170 :roll:

And here is the crusty old carb that was on the 200, the PCV valve is entering the lower mounting plate.

Image

I don't have a way to do that on this new set-up I am doing if there isn't a port on the carbs already or if I can't hook to the manifold vacuum port.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4906
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

closed PCV system

Post #164 by chad » Wed May 22, 2019 9:05 am

yes, I think we haves 'sticky' on PCV systems.

Trouble is we gotta B a bit of the historian...
I would like to havea closed system so as U say 1 rubber hose goes to the A/C housing
(frm frnt V/C opening).
From the rear V/C opening (PCV) the pcvalve in line goes to the intake "area". I'm thinkin some went to the carb &
depending on yr - others went to the base. May B none ever went to the log, eh?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
Econoline
Registered User
Posts: 1301
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Anacortes, WA

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #165 by Econoline » Wed May 22, 2019 12:05 pm

There's nothing wrong with hooking it up to the log. It may affect the vacuum signal to any other lines hooked up there, not sure. But since you have nothing else hooked up to it, it won't be problem.
It ain't gonna fix itself

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9186
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #166 by bubba22349 » Wed May 22, 2019 8:47 pm

For the very best PCV system all you need do is follow Fords engineering from the very start they have always used a closed PCV type system. The first part of the system is PCV this removes the contaminates from the engines crankcase and consumes them during the combustion process. On an inline six Ford mounted the PCV valve at one end of the internally baffled valve cover the other end of the hose goes to bottom of most newer carb's (a Vacuum source that's below the throttle blade) or to an adapter plate used between the early style carb's and the intake log, X2 yes this hose can also be connected / mounted to the intakes log vacuum port too.

The second part of the closed system is for fresh air into the engines crankcase is oil fill / breather cap this is mounted on the opposite end of the valve cover as the PCV, it will have a stub hose fitting for the crankcase vent hose that goes to the air cleaner, usally installing it into the bottom of air cleaner base plate this install also looks the cleanest but it will also function the same with it mounted to the top of the air cleaner. A slightly Modded PCV system called an open type or Hot Rod style PCV system can use a open type oil filter / breather cap without the hose bib going into the air cleaner. This system works ok for a car that's not driven very much it also filters the air that's going into the crankcase but depending on the filter of the cap used might also allow some dirt and grit into the engine. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #167 by lavron » Wed May 22, 2019 9:18 pm

You guys are a big help, I think I should be able to take care of the PCV system now, I can't remember the oil cap having a hose I will have to dig it out and look at it.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4906
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

closed PCV system

Post #168 by chad » Wed May 22, 2019 9:26 pm

here's one. Can get chrome or not.
Look below on page for 1 w/"pcv nipple".

https://www.vintageinlines.com/product- ... essory-kit
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #169 by lavron » Wed May 22, 2019 10:14 pm

chad wrote:here's one. Can get chrome or not.
Look below on page for 1 w/"pcv nipple"


Thanks Chad, I already have this, I went in and dug around for asn old picture of when I brought the 200 home.

Image

Pretty much is how everyone said :P

I will probably just paint that cap and call it good.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
wsa111
FSP Moderator
Posts: 3328
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:28 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #170 by wsa111 » Wed May 22, 2019 10:18 pm

The chrome breather does not have enough air flow. If the crankcase pressure exceeds the flow of the PCV & the breathe cap,
Get a Spectre breather cap, it has twice the flow of the chrome cap.
As Bubba stated a hose from the valve cover to the air cleaner will also supply an adequate flow to the valve cover. Take your choice.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
Image

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 4906
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

My Budget 250 build

Post #171 by chad » Wed May 22, 2019 11:06 pm

lavron wrote:Chad,Image

Hey, if U get rid of that "over the valve cover throttle cable bracket" let me know.
I could use one.
C email in sig below.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9186
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #172 by bubba22349 » Wed May 22, 2019 11:07 pm

lavron wrote:
chad wrote:here's one. Can get chrome or not.
Look below on page for 1 w/"pcv nipple"


Thanks Chad, I already have this, I went in and dug around for asn old picture of when I brought the 200 home.

Image

Pretty much is how everyone said :P

I will probably just paint that cap and call it good.

See Ya,
Mike


:beer: great Mike your all set for the correct type valve cover and other parts! :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #173 by lavron » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:39 am

Update on engine build, I got a call from the machinist and he was actually working on my motor. Of course there was an issue, first he said he needed to bore the block .030 over not .020 I had bought piston for (and waited months to get) second was he had o deck the block (did not ask how much) to true it up and from his calculations with the rods I have and the decking the pistons would be out of the bore.

I told him to go ahead and get stock cast .030 over pistons (I will have the .020 pistons up for sale probably if any one is interested) I will have to deal with compression ratio when the head gets built, he said he could modify the recess on the piston if needed.

The last thing is he was turning the bearing journals all .010 under which is fine I just bought the correct bearings.

Not sure how the math could have been wrong on piston and rod length unless he took a lot off the deck, will hopefully all work out in the end.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9186
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #174 by bubba22349 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:08 pm

:bang: well that's a bummer on those new Pistons Mike. With the stock type 250 cast piston you will be down the hole .030 more then the Ausie piston. On the deck cut I doubt normally that he would of took much more than .010 to .020 off, but even if the pistons do end up out the top of the block .010 with a .044 Victor head gasket the quench would be near perfect at .034. With a Felpro .050 then you could be out the top of the deck .015 or .020 and still be at a .035 or .030 quench. Might work out yet and you could open up the head chamber around the valves for a little better flow too. Is there a chance after he has the crank turned down you could get the block back and do a mock up to see were your at now? Is your head a large chamber one? Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #175 by lavron » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:34 pm

bubba22349 wrote: Is your head a large chamber one? Good luck


Well I never have checked it, it is a 200 head off of a '72 Maverick. I am considering doing the later larger valves and hardened seats, I had considered the 144 intake valves for exhaust valves but I am not sure I want to risk cutting into the water jacket.

He thought it would be zero deck with the longer rods and stock pistons, my only concern is the piston dish size, I am not sure what the stock dish is. I really did not want to do a ton of work on the head if I needed to lower compression but maybe I am over thinking it and it is no big deal.

I wish I had gotten the .030 pistons, I thought about it but changed my mind at the last minute so I am just going to deal with it and know that the piston shortfall (if any) will be less than stock and hopefully CR will be manageable.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9186
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #176 by bubba22349 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:02 pm

I think you will be okay here is some of what we can know except for the blocks new deck measurement.

With the Auzie Piston the compression height is 1.530
With a stock 250 replacement piston the compression height is 1.500 so .030 shorter so down the hole again
HSC Rod lenght 5.990
Stock 250 Rod lenght 5.880
Bore 3.6830
Crankshaft stroke 3.91
Stock Block height 9.469
FelPro head gasket .050
Stock Block pistion deck with stock 5.880 rods and 1.500 compression height Pistons was .150 down the hole
New block pistion deck height with 5.990 rods and 1.500 compression height Pistons is .040 down the hole before the block deck
milling.

With the Ausie Pistions you would have been only .010 down the hole and a with a .010 clean up mill it would havebeen at a zero deck height. In any case if the Pistons end up .010 to .015 above the deck with a .050 FelPro head gasket it could work out ok then it can be adjusted with cutting a larger piston dish, find a .020 block saver shim or have one made (see below example of a 300 Ford one) or Open up the head combustion chambers some too. I think stock Pistons have about a 13 CC dish.So depending on how much was the amount that that was milled off the block deck there are still some ways to fix it. If I ever get to build another 250 the plan is to tighten up the quench distance to a minimum of .030 or 035 on the short block then dial in the head cambers and cam to suit the combo.

Plugging in all these know above numbers and only have to guess on what the new deck height is, so will use zero deck at .040 (or with even as much as a .060 mill cut) could still work out. For an example I get a static compression ratio of 9.16 with using the stock spec 62 CC 1972 Maverick head plus a .040 mill cut of the block for a zero decked. Often I have found that most Ford heads will measure even larger then spec for the Combustion Chambers CC's by 2, 3, or 4 CC's depending how many times they have ever been milled before. Good luck Mike :thumbup: :nod:

FelPro 300 Head Saver Gasket Shim
https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/f ... /overview/
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #177 by lavron » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:24 pm

I got another call from the machinist today so he is actually working on my motor :roll: :P He was asking about my head gasket compression thickness and bore, I told him I had one but hadn't even opened the box to look at it but would go get measurements.

This is where my cheapness bit me again, I had bought an Engintech gasket set, I understand that the components and gaskets are just a mix of major brand name manufactures and are usually fine, I guess they are (the valve seals are Mahle) but the head gasket is definitely not a Fel-Pro :roll: not sure what it is but it is missing the metal ring around either 3 or 4 piston hole, don't think that is right :roll:

I called him back and told him to use Fel-Pro numbers (I gave him the numbers from the Ford Falcon Six Cylinder book) and I went ahead and ordered a head gasket.

Anyway he was in the process of turning the pistons, I think he topped them and said he would add a little more dish if he needed too. I think he had calculated 9.9 CR with us estimating the chambers at 62 cc, I told him I would bring him my head soon, if we have to remove some fro the chambers to bring the CR back down I guess we will cross that bridge when we get to it.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #178 by lavron » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:31 am

Picked the block up yesterday, will add more pictures and info as I start putting everything back together.

Image

Dropped off the head, he is going to check it for any issues, the head is a '72 so going to put hardened exhaust seats in and cut intake seats for '78 valves (1.75") too nervous to try and install 1.50" exhaust valves I don't want to potentially cut into the water jacket to install seats.

I have a lot to do as far as the head stuff, I need to get the custom intake pattern mounted on a board and get it ready to cast (plus cast it), figure out what valve springs to use along with cam choices, leaning toward 302 valve springs but maybe a fresh set of stock springs would be a better choice?

Will probably be looking for advice on things like measuring and acquiring push rods etc in the near future (relatively speaking), that is something I have never done before (I don't even know where to get them)

Anyway, closer every day.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
65coupei6
Assistant Admin
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2002 3:07 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #179 by 65coupei6 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:09 am

It has been fun reading the posts and following along with the build. Nice work!

As for the push rods. you can buy an adjustable rod to help you measure. Or just make one. Just cut the rod in half. thread the ends and use a coupler. (just like your throttle linkage).

I would suggest 3/8 pushrods from Smith Brothers. https://www.pushrods.net/
...Marco

'65 Mustang Inline 200. VI (CI) Aluminum Head, Holley 350, Schneider 264/274 cam,
Headers, DSII, MSD 6A, and a whole lotta other stuff!

Build That Six With Parts From VintageInlines.com

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9186
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #180 by bubba22349 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:31 pm

:beer: your 250 build is coming along very nicely Mike, as far as valve springs and depending on the cam you end up choosing I would lean towards the Hy Po 289 or 302's valve springs this will give you severial hundred RPM higher rev range even with a stock cam. When I was tuning on my 77 Maverick (250, C4, 3:00 rear combo) totally stock short block with ported head and top end tricks (plus it still needed to pass SoCal smog tests) I was a little disappointed though that it was all done at 78 MPH. Next I was going for a lot more cam, compression and better more free flowing exhaust. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #181 by lavron » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:17 pm

Thanks guys I appreciate any suggestions, even though I have been working on cars a long time (mostly I6, mostly this car :P ) it has been 30+ years since I have done anything this involved and my first 250 for sure so everyone here is an invaluable source of information and wisdom.

Been re-reading through the Falcon Six Performance Handbook for the 1000th time.

65coupei6 wrote:As for the push rods. you can buy an adjustable rod to help you measure. Or just make one. Just cut the rod in half. thread the ends and use a coupler. (just like your throttle linkage).


Thanks for the idea I think that is what I will do, I will have to look around for a cup and ball pushrod I have to have something lying around because I never throw out anything :roll:

I will certainly be keeping this thread updated as I work through the rebuild, and will post my sorrows as well as successes :P

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #182 by lavron » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:27 pm

First mistake I made, so far, on the engine re-assembly. I really did not think about it and just ordered a rebuild kit (gaskets, bearings and rings) for a 250. The rod bearings don't work, I did not even think about needing 2.5L I4 rod bearings :roll:

I was out putting as much together as I could, mostly wanted to get the crank installed because I figure the safest location for it is bolted in the block, so I installed the new .010 under main bearings and the rear main seal and got the caps all torqued down to specs,

I had let my piston ring compressor get peed on by rodents while packed away so it was rusted up pretty bad and need to get a new one so I was pretty much finished with what I could do today, I thought I would go ahead and get the piston rings installed and put the rod bearings in so I would be ready when I got a new compressor to install pistons and found that the bearings would not line up properly.

Image

it looks like the notch is in a slightly different location and on the HSC rods the notch is slightly narrower. I checked on RockAuto's web site and the part numbers between the two bearings are not the same, it appears all dimensions match otherwise, going to order 6 HSC rod bearings today, they are pretty cheap like $2.50 each so not a costly error at least.

Also I I didn't get a gasket for the oil pump to block with the new pump or the gasket set, can I just use "Great Stuff" gasket maker/sealer instead of finding a gasket?

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9186
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #183 by bubba22349 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:37 pm

That's interesting on those HSC rod bearings being different on the tang location. I used to use the oil pump to block gaskets on my builds, now days most people usally don't so using a little solicone works just fine. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #184 by lavron » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:50 pm

Got the HSC rod bearings today, much better fit.
Image

Still waiting on my ring compressor, but as soon as it gets here I will put these in.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #185 by lavron » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:26 pm

I ended up ordering a set of '65 Galaxie FE pushrods for a solid lifter motor, I got them yesterday, here they are compared to the original 250 pushrods;
Image

Looks like they should work ok.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #186 by lavron » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:14 am

Maybe a first post with some real world results, I put my pistons in today and torqued the rod bolts to the ARP recommended 35#
Image

The piston deck height is much better, a .013 feeler gauge drags slightly under a straight edge, way better than the 1/8" that was there before.
Image

The extra cut on the piston top was done to keep the CR down a little, the machinist thought we were right around 10:1 with the stock dish, in hindsight I should have had him get a set of California emission pistons with a 13cc dish but did not think about it at the time, I think you can see why the Aussie pistons would have protruded here but it might not have been too much, I think this will work ok. If it wasn't for having to wait months to get a replacement set of Aussie .030 over pistons I would have got them because he said he could have turned the top of the piston down to zero deck.

I am not sure what the CC of that dish is, I will try and measure it tomorrow, it is obviously the same depth as the stock piston just bigger around.

I test fitted my water pump and timing cover as well, I need to pick up some stainless bolts for the timing cover because the bolt set(s) that I have are all for a 200, I have my original bolts I will just match those in stainless.
Image

Still need to get the cam and timing set ordered so I can get the short block finished up.

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
lavron
Registered User
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 pm
Location: Missouri, Ozarks way North
Contact:

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #187 by lavron » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:04 pm

If my math is right :roll: the dish in the top of the piston is approx. 12.63cc

The measurements I used, which are not perfect are top of dish is 8.468cm across, bottom is 7.957cm and the depth is .238cm.

I can just use liquid sometime to get actual numbers but did not have time today to try and collect stuff up or to do it anyway (it was quick to do the rough measure :P )

See Ya,
Mike
64 Comet 202 Sedan, 250- I6, Air Ride, Mll, 8.8 LSD, 4 wheel Discs
Image
Currently a Build in Progress- Whatever I do it will be awesome!

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 9186
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: My Budget 250 build

Post #188 by bubba22349 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:39 pm

:beer: looks like it’s shaping up to a good combo Mike! And you still can adjust it a little with the choice of head gaskets Victor at .044 or FelPro at .050, and if you could find a .020 to .022 steel or copper head gasket you would have about the perfect quench. Good luck :thumbup: :nod: Edited
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests