that's excellent news thank you for the update. 
Adding aluminum head to 250 in a 66 Mustang (engine running video added)
- Thread starter Stryker7314
- Start date
that's excellent news thank you for the update. Stryker7314
Well-known member
Glad the forums back.
Do I need a camshaft thrust plate? Looked it up and what it does and unsure.
Also should I get a regular waterpump or the high flow pump?
Do I need a camshaft thrust plate? Looked it up and what it does and unsure.
Also should I get a regular waterpump or the high flow pump?
we'll trade:
LOL
tell me what the expcted increas in hp is by adding that head,
and
I'll tell you abt the 'wedding ring'.
I throw in the
'doesn't matter' on the H2O pump
for free.
(not a very funny joke, ploy for my own facts)
I mean it's pretty neat'n all but what is it worth (I don't mean the cost)...
LOL
tell me what the expcted increas in hp is by adding that head,
and
I'll tell you abt the 'wedding ring'.
I throw in the
'doesn't matter' on the H2O pump
for free.
(not a very funny joke, ploy for my own facts)
I mean it's pretty neat'n all but what is it worth (I don't mean the cost)...
Stryker7314":2y1r7taj said:
Yes you do need a thrust plate that's in good condistion (and the cam spacer ring too) it keeps the cam from walking back and forth in the block. See below link of Rusty Wagons troubles with a broken timing chain from a missing part (cam spacer ring. If you look at his pictures closely you can see the thrust plate shows excessive wear too because of that missing cam spacer ring, if your plate shows much damage then it should be replaced. Thrust plates are still available new however the cam spacer rings aren't very easy to find so don't loose yours. Good luck
The Tale of Rusty Wagon
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79988&p=619824#p619826
Stryker7314
Well-known member
chad":2333zkkm said:
I'm game anyway lol
Increase to anywhere from 150 whp to 200.
Thanks for the heads up on the H20 pump, will get a regular one if no difference for my purposes.
Those are the sort of things I don't know much about, definitely going with a machine shop hahaha.
Going to hold on to the cam spacer ring and get a new thrust plate because they are cheap anyway.
OK, repayment:
I CAN give U a H2O pump 'referral':
many here use the GMB alu (got 1 on the 250 that's just been refreshed) -
summit prt #: GMB-125-xxx (xxx= the 200's - don't know it, my 250 is '1380'). C
'the Handbook'.
So U say the head 'doubles +' the 200 output? (of course w/the other enhancements to that specific head)?
What is done to the bottom end as well, anything?
I CAN give U a H2O pump 'referral':
many here use the GMB alu (got 1 on the 250 that's just been refreshed) -
summit prt #: GMB-125-xxx (xxx= the 200's - don't know it, my 250 is '1380'). C
'the Handbook'.
So U say the head 'doubles +' the 200 output? (of course w/the other enhancements to that specific head)?
What is done to the bottom end as well, anything?
Stryker7314
Well-known member
chad":332e2xes said:
Awesome thank you, probably just be picking it up from VintageInlines if in stock. When you say "what is it worth" for the HF water pump are you saying the tradeoffs? Such as more power to drive it? Or some sort of shortcoming?
Just going off what others have reported on the tech archive with similar parts here: https://fordsix.com/ci/DynoRoom-2.html
I will be happy with 150+ and a reliable engine.
The bottom is completely rebuilt, weighted and balanced, with arp bolts and studs, forged rods, new pistons with zero-gap rings and new bearings all around. It was made with compression on the lower side for turbo application, which I'm good with for NA because I want to be able to use regular gas, more than likely will run 93 to be safe. The machine shop I have talked to will be doing all the measuring to give me the metrics.
"...what its worth..."
no, just increase over stock. I mean 2k$ is alot in my world. Would want to find the advantage, increase, optimal out put gained, thru that purchase. From ur info looks like 75 in tq and 100 in HP...
Thnx~
no, just increase over stock. I mean 2k$ is alot in my world. Would want to find the advantage, increase, optimal out put gained, thru that purchase. From ur info looks like 75 in tq and 100 in HP...
Thnx~
Liker Chad said. A GMB water pump is fine. I just replaced mine and got it from Amazon. My last one lasted about 15-20 years before it started leaking at the weep hole.
You can also opt for a FlowKooler. The impeller design is supposed to be better than most. In all honesty it looks like a GMB with their impeller pressed on.
You might as well start deciding on a raidator also. I suggest looking into ACP or Northern. I have been doing research on this the last week or so. My third choice is Cold Case. Last is Champion. I just don't like the looks of the Champion. I have been using a Northern Aluminum for a while now. All the other brands seem expensive for the same cooling as the ones I listed.
You can also opt for a FlowKooler. The impeller design is supposed to be better than most. In all honesty it looks like a GMB with their impeller pressed on.
You might as well start deciding on a raidator also. I suggest looking into ACP or Northern. I have been doing research on this the last week or so. My third choice is Cold Case. Last is Champion. I just don't like the looks of the Champion. I have been using a Northern Aluminum for a while now. All the other brands seem expensive for the same cooling as the ones I listed.
Stryker7314":gp0bpejh said:
Not sure if your planing to use a Turbo someday or not, or are you talking about only using a lower CR in the range of a 8.0 or 8.5 to 1 CR for a NA engine? Even a bone stock early 200 six had 8.7 to 1 CR so you might be giving up a good amount of easy to get horse power and some torque not having a higher 9.1 to 1 CR. Here are a few NA examples for your comparison a Ford 200 six short block that's been Zero decked, this is the ideal for NA Ford 200 engine today because of the thicker head gaskets we now have. With an iron head you can run on 87 reg fuel with a 9.0 to 9.2 to 1 CR depending on your local Conditions IE The ambient air temps, altitude, and the type terrain. Stock early 200's had a piston height to top of the block deck of .019 down the hole combined with an original .022 inch thick steel shim head gasket for a the quench distance of .041 this is right in the ideal range of from .035 to .050. With the addistion of an aluminum head because they don't retain heat the way an iron head dose. So you can also use a higher C.R. of .5 to 1 point. Best of luck it sounds like your on the way to building a good engine combo.
Edited
Yes Chad, getting the ideal quench distance is well proven old technology that applies to all NA (Normally Aspirated or non Turbo & non Supercharged) engines and helps the engine to produce its most horse power, highest amount of torque, plus provides best resistance to detonation using the available fuels we have to work with today. In the example above it was for what a stock Ford 200 Six used in the mid 1960's.
Racers will also use quench distance to increase engine power going with the bare minimum quence distance, some going down to a .030 or even a bit less. In all these non stock cases you need to also check your valve to piston clearance is in the safe minimums. They will also use much higher compression ratios along with race gas, E85, Alcohol, or other type fuels.
But again my above example is geared for NA street performance engine using the commonly available regular 87 pump gas. There are a number of ways to acoplish getting good quench these are milling the block deck for a zero deck or a + piston is above the decl, using a thinner head gasket, and different rods and pistons that rasie the compression height of the piston to block deck clearance.
For a very good example of getting a good quench distance useing the some factory parts swapping in a 250 Six short block then check out Mike's "Lavron's budget 250 build" (see the below link) it is my OPIN that Mike's research and selection of the HSC 2.5L connecting rods and Australian spec Pistons or else by custom milling of the dish of the US spec Pistons offers one of the very best budget (bang for the buck) ways to fix the excessive quench distance on the stock 250 Ford six'es. This should give a really good increase in power and torque for his 250 six build, It could also be done with other longer connecting rods such as the 300 big six Rod and a set of custom Pistons but it's going to be a bit more money. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77057#p593722
Best of luck on going for a max torque build up! Edited
Racers will also use quench distance to increase engine power going with the bare minimum quence distance, some going down to a .030 or even a bit less. In all these non stock cases you need to also check your valve to piston clearance is in the safe minimums. They will also use much higher compression ratios along with race gas, E85, Alcohol, or other type fuels.
But again my above example is geared for NA street performance engine using the commonly available regular 87 pump gas. There are a number of ways to acoplish getting good quench these are milling the block deck for a zero deck or a + piston is above the decl, using a thinner head gasket, and different rods and pistons that rasie the compression height of the piston to block deck clearance.
For a very good example of getting a good quench distance useing the some factory parts swapping in a 250 Six short block then check out Mike's "Lavron's budget 250 build" (see the below link) it is my OPIN that Mike's research and selection of the HSC 2.5L connecting rods and Australian spec Pistons or else by custom milling of the dish of the US spec Pistons offers one of the very best budget (bang for the buck) ways to fix the excessive quench distance on the stock 250 Ford six'es. This should give a really good increase in power and torque for his 250 six build, It could also be done with other longer connecting rods such as the 300 big six Rod and a set of custom Pistons but it's going to be a bit more money. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77057#p593722
Best of luck on going for a max torque build up!
EditedStryker7314
Well-known member
Lots of great info that I'm taking into consideration, especially the CR, will probably ask the machine shop to get it to 9:1.
Anyone know where I can get a fuel pump block off plate? I have googled and seen a few that look like they would fit but not sure if they do because they don't confirm, the one I saw was on summit.
Anyone know where I can get a fuel pump block off plate? I have googled and seen a few that look like they would fit but not sure if they do because they don't confirm, the one I saw was on summit.
Stryker7314
Well-known member
I agree, everything I have purchased from Matt but VI is out of stock.
Based on the model number I assume this pump block off plate will work but I am going to get in contact with them first to be sure:
https://www.flashpowerparts.com/flashpo ... black.html
Based on the model number I assume this pump block off plate will work but I am going to get in contact with them first to be sure:
https://www.flashpowerparts.com/flashpo ... black.html