200ci Degree the cam?

[Frank]

Please explain how opening and closing the exhaust valve later causes heat.

I realize I'm still visualizing the cycle of events with the subconscious assumption of late ignition timing. Aside from other potential contributing factors, later valve timing would not increase exhaust temperature of itself. Thanks for the question.

 

[pmuller9]

Yes late valve events increase exhaust heat.

You will need to explain how closing the exhaust valve later causes heat.

P, Is it pointless to advance ignition timing with a badly retarded cam!

Your cam is not badly retarded.
In fact, if you check it again without the rocker arm you may find that is a close to having the correct timing according to the cam card.

Secondly, we run camshafts 4 degrees retarded frequently to gain more upper rpm power.
We just recently retarded the cam timing on the puling truck 8 degrees (from 4 degrees advanced to 4 degrees retarded) and picked up power.
The ignition timing stayed the same.

 

[pmuller9]

I realize I'm still visualizing the cycle of events with the subconscious assumption of late ignition timing. Aside from other potential contributing factors, later valve timing would not increase exhaust temperature of itself. Thanks for the question.

When you retard the cam the exhaust temp actually goes down especially at cruising rpms below peak torque.
When the exhaust valve opens later it allows the power stroke to do more work which extracts thermal energy.
The later closing exhaust valve acts like an EGR valve which lowers combustion temperature which is a technique used in the modern VVT engines.

 

[63 Sprint]

I have full manifold vacuum at cruise. No back pressure. I suppose a brand new muffler could be bad. Everything made in China now. No heat riser. Can retarded cam timing cause the hot exhaust or just late ignition timing? I will try advancing. I have run it as high as 16* BTDC.

Can you please expound on No heat riser?

1• Was the flapper valve wired shut so minimal heat gets to the intake manifold?

2• Is the flapper valve cut out completely?
If this is the case, the intake manifold plenum under the carbruator is getting blasted constantly by lots of exhaust heat. And this could be why you need to wear gloves to work the throttle linkage. I think a cut out flapper valve is pretty much just as bad as a flapper valve stuck in the open position.

Another question:
Is lots of paint burnt on the intake manifold around the carburetor base?

 

[wsa111]

Did you make sure that the crankshaft damper is @ 0 when the piston is at TDC?
You need the camshaft advanced 2degrees for your build.
You do not need a dual vacuum advance on your engine.
You should have no hose connected to the inner part of the vacuum advance.
What are the specs on your distributor done by Dan Nolan?.
Look at my DS11 distributors in the small six for sale section of the forum.
Contact me @ billythedistributorman@live.com Give me your phone # and the best time to call.
I am in the EST zone, Bill

 

[Dustyford]

P, Is it pointless to advance ignition timing with a badly retarded cam!

Please explain how opening and closing the exhaust valve later causes heat.

You will need to explain how closing the exhaust valve later causes heat.

Your cam is not badly retarded.
In fact, if you check it again without the rocker arm you may find that is a close to having the correct timing according to the cam card.

Secondly, we run camshafts 4 degrees retarded frequently to gain more upper rpm power.
We just recently retarded the cam timing on the puling truck 8 degrees (from 4 degrees advanced to 4 degrees retarded) and picked up power.
The ignition timing stayed the same.

Oh. I thought it was way off the mark. Should I go through the trouble of checking it then? I don’t even have upper RPM. I guess there is no explanation for my situation.

 

[pmuller9]

One explanation is something 63 Sprint brought up concerning the heat riser.
If there is no flapper, the intake manifold and carburetor will get too hot.
The fuel in the carburetor may be boiling.

 

[Dustyford]

One explanation is something 63 Sprint brought up concerning the heat riser.
If there is no flapper, the intake manifold and carburetor will get too hot.
The fuel in the carburetor may be boiling.

I could see that happening statically but not driving. Hmm. Where would the heat riser be and was it there from the factory?

 

[pmuller9]

It does run hot. Exhaust is so hot I have to wear a welding glove to operate the throttle linkage after running for five minutes

I have full manifold vacuum at cruise. No back pressure. I suppose a brand new muffler could be bad. Everything made in China now. No heat riser.

In these two post you said "I have to wear a welding glove to operate the throttle linkage"
and you also said "No heat riser".

If there is no heat riser, then the intake manifold and carburetor will run too hot.

You also said:

Part of the reason I changed carbs is because the carb was badly warped and pitted and leaked from the cover gasket all the way around.

This could also be from way too much heat.

 

[Dustyford]

In these two post you said "I have to wear a welding glove to operate the throttle linkage"
and you also said "No heat riser".

If there is no heat riser, then the intake manifold and carburetor will run too hot.

I am saying there is no heat riser only because I don’t see anything attached anywhere. I assume it’s in the exhaust manifold? I am getting hit with four responses at once and I’m not getting notifications. I’m swamped. I am repeating myself a lot too.

 

[pmuller9]

Yes, the heat rise is in the exhaust manifold and is operated by a bi-metal spring to regulate the temperature.
That flapper valve must be free to open and close.

 

[Dustyford]

Can you please expound on No heat riser?

1• Was the flapper valve wired shut so minimal heat gets to the intake manifold?

2• Is the flapper valve cut out completely?
If this is the case, the intake manifold plenum under the carbruator is getting blasted constantly by lots of exhaust heat. And this could be why you need to wear gloves to work the throttle linkage. I think a cut out flapper valve is pretty much just as bad as a flapper valve stuck in the open position.

Another question:
Is lots of paint burnt on the intake manifold around the carburetor base?

Sorry Sprint, I’m getting bombarded and not getting notifications. I don’t know what flapper valve you are referring to. Is it supposed to be on the exhaust manifold? Maybe I’m missing a piece. Can you send a photo? Was it a factory part?
No burnt paint.

 

[Dustyford]

Yes, the heat rise is in the exhaust manifold and is operated by a bi-metal spring to regulate the temperature.
That flapper valve must be free to open and close.

Was it a stock factory piece? I see nothing on my manifold where a valve would attach. I actually have three manifolds with no valve. See picture

 

[pmuller9]

Ok, so the 200 six doesn't have a heat riser.
Thanks for the picture.
I was wrong thinking the small six was set-up the same as the 240/300 six

 

[DON]

In the big picture, you changed 3 parts. The cam was reground, it needs to be verified. Dizzy, needs to be verified that timing is suitable, and carb, plugs look good, no backfiring, it should be functioning.

 

[63 Sprint]

Thanks for the picture. I was thinking of the 240. I just remembered that the 170 and 200 do not have a heat riser valve in the exhaust manifold.

Question:
Would disconnecting the muffler from the front pipe be a task that you can easily handle? Or just remove the down pipe briefly from the exhaust manifold outlet and see if the engine responds differently? The reason why I’m asking is this would tell us if the new muffler is restricted or not. It seems like we need to go through process of elimination.

 

[Dustyford]

Thanks for the picture. I was thinking of the 240. I just remembered that the 170 and 200 do not have a heat riser valve in the exhaust manifold.

Question:
Would disconnecting the muffler from the front pipe be a task that you can easily handle? The reason why I’m asking is this would tell us if the new muffler is restricted or not. It seems like we need to go through process of elimination.

I could if I had to. I just put the new muffler on. I would hate to have to buy new parts because I ruined something taking it apart. I was told if I have full vacuum at cruise the exhaust is not an issue.

 

[63 Sprint]

We understand. It seems like it would be good to test the muffler.

I’ve written earlier about having a restricted muffler on my 63 Falcon. As we know, new parts is no guarantee that it will fix a problem.

We need to work on ruling things out.

 

[63 Sprint]

When you have a chance. Please take a top view picture of the distributor showing the vacuum canister and the way the vacuum line is connected to it.

 

[Engine Fan]

Just loosen/or remove the nuts at the down pipe/manifold connection and drop the pipe enough to give the exhaust another way out.
Then see if it revs. That should eliminate the "exhaust back pressure" variable.

I could if I had to. I just put the new muffler on. I would hate to have to buy new parts because I ruined something taking it apart. I was told if I have full vacuum at cruise the exhaust is not an issue.