I am ordering a new degree wheel with a 1" center hole. It is supposed to be here Sunday.
All Small Six Installing and Degreeing Camshaft - 1983 200lm
- Thread starter Dr_Dan_WWW
- Start date
This relates to all small sixes
Why not just drill out the one you have?
Do you have a step drill?
I could have. I have the step bits. No drill press. I just want to reduce any potential mistakes. (chicken) The new one will be here tomorrow.
As for the lack of cam thrust, in the past with several different aftermarket timing sets, I've had to remachine the step on the back of the cam gear to correct that. Or you will need to machine a new spacer that is wider to get more thrust movement.
As others have mentioned, verify your TDC mark on your balancer matches the "true TDC" of your #1 piston. Also, install your balancer with the correct harmonic balancer tool, and not a hammer!
As others have mentioned, verify your TDC mark on your balancer matches the "true TDC" of your #1 piston. Also, install your balancer with the correct harmonic balancer tool, and not a hammer!
Last edited:
I am working on top dead center (while ignoring work).
First, I used the piston stop and the dial indicator. I put the new MOROSO 18" wheel on with my handy-dandy crank socket turner. Question: do some folks just use the dial indicator to find TDC? I can guess that the piston stop provides a definite stop point. But the dial indicator provides a clear top moment in my opinion.
View attachment Bronco 1983 engine TDC 1 IMG_7322.MOV
First, I used the piston stop and the dial indicator. I put the new MOROSO 18" wheel on with my handy-dandy crank socket turner. Question: do some folks just use the dial indicator to find TDC? I can guess that the piston stop provides a definite stop point. But the dial indicator provides a clear top moment in my opinion.
View attachment Bronco 1983 engine TDC 1 IMG_7322.MOV
Last edited:
Adjust the piston stop so that it's down to far. Install the degree wheel and pointer, don't worry about where things are. Turn the engine until it stops, write the degree wheel number down. Turn the engine the other way untill it stops again. Add both numbers and divide by 2 (average). With the engine at the stop move degree wheel to the average number. Turn the engine the other way (again) when it stops the magic number should be same. Do it untill things line up
If you try to just set things at TDC the bearing slack will mess things up
If you try to just set things at TDC the bearing slack will mess things up
quote: "If you try to just set things at TDC the bearing slack will mess things up"
Bearing slack? The assembly seems real tight to me. But maybe I'm missing the slack.
Right. When I had the piston stop on, I just started turning. Wrote both directions down and divided by 2. It was 0 and 39. Divided by 2 = 19.5. Then, I started over and set it up again. Same thing. At that point I adjust the wheel to zero without moving the crank because of the crank bolt socket turner tool allows me to do that. Took the stop off.
But I wasn't confident I did things correctly. So I put piston stop back on and restarted. This time I bounced back and forth to 18.5 on both sides of zero. I had turned the engine stand around for better light. I must have bumped the dial indicator. So I lost a degree on both sides.
I'm not 100% I did things correctly.
Bearing slack? The assembly seems real tight to me. But maybe I'm missing the slack.
Right. When I had the piston stop on, I just started turning. Wrote both directions down and divided by 2. It was 0 and 39. Divided by 2 = 19.5. Then, I started over and set it up again. Same thing. At that point I adjust the wheel to zero without moving the crank because of the crank bolt socket turner tool allows me to do that. Took the stop off.
But I wasn't confident I did things correctly. So I put piston stop back on and restarted. This time I bounced back and forth to 18.5 on both sides of zero. I had turned the engine stand around for better light. I must have bumped the dial indicator. So I lost a degree on both sides.
I'm not 100% I did things correctly.
The procedure in the attached video is not quite right.
You will notice some dial indicator dwell time as the crankshaft goes by TDC. That is the because of the rod bearing clearance.
The bearing clearance will add to the measurement and create an error.
When you use the dial indicator, you must always approach the reading by pushing up on the piston with the crank and connecting rod to eliminate the bearing clearance error.
The .100" reading is about 18 degrees before and after TDC.
The piston stop always seats the connecting rod bearing on top of the crank journal which eliminates the error.
You will notice some dial indicator dwell time as the crankshaft goes by TDC. That is the because of the rod bearing clearance.
The bearing clearance will add to the measurement and create an error.
When you use the dial indicator, you must always approach the reading by pushing up on the piston with the crank and connecting rod to eliminate the bearing clearance error.
The .100" reading is about 18 degrees before and after TDC.
The piston stop always seats the connecting rod bearing on top of the crank journal which eliminates the error.
Good. I will redo my measurements tomorrow. Thanks.
Alright. Busy weekend. But I am finding TDC this morning.
I put the piston stop back on. I understand that both pmueller9 and the poster calling it "bearing slack," which I now understand what they meant - the rod bearing clearance. Here's the video:
View attachment Bronco 1983 engine finding TDC 2 IMG_7324.MOV
I believe the next step is to remove the piston stop and verify TDC by raising the #1 piston to zero on the degree wheel, which should be half way between 20.5 degrees counterclockwise and 20.5 degrees clockwise.
If you see something amiss, let me know. Thank you for the help.
I put the piston stop back on. I understand that both pmueller9 and the poster calling it "bearing slack," which I now understand what they meant - the rod bearing clearance. Here's the video:
View attachment Bronco 1983 engine finding TDC 2 IMG_7324.MOV
I believe the next step is to remove the piston stop and verify TDC by raising the #1 piston to zero on the degree wheel, which should be half way between 20.5 degrees counterclockwise and 20.5 degrees clockwise.
If you see something amiss, let me know. Thank you for the help.
I pressed on to attempting to degree the camshaft. I do not think It worked.
I don't have my timing chain cover on yet. Unless you mean another mark someplace. Anyway, on to degreeing. I going to post my first try here in a moment.
Here's my video of my first attempt to degree the camshaft.
View attachment Broncon 1983 engine cam degree 1 IMG_7327.MOV
View attachment Broncon 1983 engine cam degree 1 IMG_7327.MOV
Hi Dr. Dan unlike when you found TDC and you needed to turn the engine backwards, when you are Degreeing the Camshaft you really should turn the engine only in one direction. That way any slop that's in your Timing Chain & Gear set plus also that crankshaft socket then that doesn't enter into your degree measurements.
For a really good video going over the Degreeing Process on a Ford 200 Six Short Block check out site member "echo1955" excellent video here is the link.
Good Luck.
For a really good video going over the Degreeing Process on a Ford 200 Six Short Block check out site member "echo1955" excellent video here is the link.
Thanks Bubba. Funny thing is, I have echo1955's video sitting right there in front of me while I degreed the cam. I thought he turned it CW and CCW. Also, echo1955 didn't use one of these fancy crank turn socket tools.
But I understand what you are saying. Keeping the wheel moving the same direction should really help and maybe solve my problem. I will go try it now.
But I understand what you are saying. Keeping the wheel moving the same direction should really help and maybe solve my problem. I will go try it now.
Okay I just kept turning the wheel clockwise - from 0 to .50, on the dial indicator, then more clockwise and the dial came back to 0 and degree wheel read 46. 64.5 and 46 equals 110.5, which is what I came up with on the video above. What does that mean?
Then I didn't know what to do next, so I just kept turning the wheel clockwise to .50 on the dial. Then the wheel read 30 degrees. But I don't know what that means.
It seems to me that at some point you have to go back to counter clockwise so you can find .50 (dial) before the TDC of the cam lobe, and then find the other side of the lobe at .50 on the dial.
Then I didn't know what to do next, so I just kept turning the wheel clockwise to .50 on the dial. Then the wheel read 30 degrees. But I don't know what that means.
It seems to me that at some point you have to go back to counter clockwise so you can find .50 (dial) before the TDC of the cam lobe, and then find the other side of the lobe at .50 on the dial.
Alway turn the crankshaft clockwise for this operation. Do not let the timing chain go slack on the top side.
Starting with the intake lifter, when it is all the way down, zero the dial.
Turn the crank till it reads .050" then record the reading.
Continue turning till the lifter reaches max lift and continues back down to .050" on the other side of the lobe and record the reading.
If you look at the right side of the cam card the first reading should have been .5 degrees BTDC and the second reading should be 28.5 after BDC
The .050" measurements are taken from the bottom of the cam lobe, not the top.
The method you just performed is called the centerline method where you check the lobe center .050" from the top.
The cam card shows the readings .050" from the bottom which is the .050" duration method.
The cam card shows that the Intake C/L should be 104.
that means that the intake lobe center should be at 104 degrees ATDC
Check the timing again using the .050" duration method and check your readings against the reading on the right side of the cam card
Starting with the intake lifter, when it is all the way down, zero the dial.
Turn the crank till it reads .050" then record the reading.
Continue turning till the lifter reaches max lift and continues back down to .050" on the other side of the lobe and record the reading.
If you look at the right side of the cam card the first reading should have been .5 degrees BTDC and the second reading should be 28.5 after BDC
The .050" measurements are taken from the bottom of the cam lobe, not the top.
The method you just performed is called the centerline method where you check the lobe center .050" from the top.
The cam card shows the readings .050" from the bottom which is the .050" duration method.
The cam card shows that the Intake C/L should be 104.
that means that the intake lobe center should be at 104 degrees ATDC
Check the timing again using the .050" duration method and check your readings against the reading on the right side of the cam card
Last edited:
So pmuller9: do you think I created an error somewhere, or just used a faulty method? Six degrees retarded doesn't sound remotely close to what I should read.
I am going out to the garage and follow this step by step. If it comes back close to what I produced earlier then I will start over.
Thanks.
Similar threads
All Small Six
Camshaft Degree Troubleshooting Help
