Probably another simple fix

[mugsy]

mugsy wrote:
Lazt JW,

YupI saw that earlier. But he has not confirmed which system is in the car, either a point or electronic system, yet. We'll need to know to help him on troubleshooting the ignition system.

Agreed. But I do believe we are dealing with a relatively inexperienced motorhead, and throwing too many things at once does get confusing.
Joe

TRUE DAT!

But this might also be a good time for the owner to learn a little more about his car and cars in general. It sounds like an ignition problem to me. But he needs to work verify the carb stuff first; then go to Plan "B"!

 

[Lazy JW]

I suppose we all have our preferred methods of troubleshooting, but when I am repeatedly told there is no spark I tend to focus on the ignition system.
Joe

 

[sixpony]

If you do the coil test as Joe described and you are confident you have a good coil, (cap,rotor),voltage to the coil (it will be less than 12v because of the ballast resistor. If you don't have points and the ignition is self contained within the distributor cap then you most likely have a pertronix system. When running one of these its a good idea to have a backup set of points and the knowledge to install them, points are relatively cheap and installing them is not that big a deal if you do a little research. If you can, post some pics so we know what you're dealing with.

 

[Slipknotcc]

Hey guys,

Sorry for the delay, the week of rain here has made working on the car a little difficult (no garage :-( ). But by tomorrow I should have pics and updates, and hopefully a fixed car as well.

Thanks for helping me out, I know I'm a noob,
Cory

 

[Lazy JW]

Glad you're still with us; we all had to start someplace so just hang in there!

 

[Slipknotcc]

Hey all,
Here is the picture of my distributor without the cap. This is an electronic one right?

So when I put the coil wire close to ground I get a really big bright spark. But when I do what was said above with the spark plug, where you ground the outside and look for the spark, the spark plug doesn't spark. I checked the gap to make sure it was right.

So what are my options? Distributor?

Thanks,
Cory

 

[ludwig]

That is a Pertronix unit. I would suspect that it failed. Two choices: 1) replace with new Pertronix I or II or 2) replace with conventional point system. I suggest to get it going and because you are not a knees deep mechanic to go with choice #1. You can just replace the little black unit if all the magnets are in place. Otherwise, replace them too from the new set. Ptx I is cheaper. Probably no big difference in performance and little more reliable.

Choice 2 is perhaps even more reliable but it takes a little more sophistication. It is immanently doable but you need a gauge and timing light.

BEST STEP: Replace with DuraSpark II system. You can get this at the auto parts store or salvage the parts.

However, to get it going again as quickly as possible, change out the Pertronix unit. Then get going on one of the other two. At this point I would do the DuraSpark II system. There are lots of threads if you do a search.

Bottom line:
Cheapest: new points. Time: ++, difficulty: ++, Cost: -
Quickest: Pertronix. Time: -, difficulty -, cost ++
Most reliable with added performance: DuraSpark II. Time: +++, difficulty ++, cost: - to +++ depending on whether you salvage or buy the system.

 

[Slipknotcc]

@Ludwig : Thank you! So now, would the Pertroxix I or II be something I can get from a Napa/Autozone, or do I have to order it?

Thanks,
Cory

 

[Henning_1966]

Try using this page to locate a local dealer. http://www.pertronix.com/search/dealer/us.aspx

 

[Slipknotcc]

Thanks for the link. Calling now, wish me luck.

While we are talking about the Pertronix Unit. I know this is random, but what type of gap should I have on my spark plugs seeing as how this gives off more spark than traditional point systems.

Thanks,
Cory

 

[Lazy JW]

.......So when I put the coil wire close to ground I get a really big bright spark. But when I do what was said above with the spark plug, where you ground the outside and look for the spark, the spark plug doesn't spark......

Good, we're going places now 8)

Please clarify precisely what method you used to test the coil to get the "really big bright spark".

No need to go shopping just yet until we can nail down EXACTLY where things go haywire.
Joe

 

[mugsy]

I can see the spring but not the weights. Is that a LOM dizzy?

 

[sixpony]

I can see the spring but not the weights. Is that a LOM dizzy?

Yup, thats a loado, another good reason to switch to DSII, but for now I would just replace the pertronix with a set of points to verify that its bad, timing wont need to be that precise for now, just need a feeler gauge and a little help installing them.

 

[mugsy]

Do you have the correct carb for the LOM dizzy? Can you take a picture of the carb on the passenger side of the vehicle?

When I bought my '65 the dizzy was bad. The ac advance can was leaking so there wasn't any advance in the dizzy. Have you verified that the dizzy is functioning correctly?

 

[ludwig]

Way past my comfort zone by now. However, maybe it's time to re-name the string? We're on page 2 already. Although each one of the proposals is a simple fix.

 

[69.5Mav]

I'm with Lazy JW how did you get the coil to spark. When we know that we can suggest further testing to narrow in on the correct fix.

You had a car that was running just fine then blewie it stopped. At first you were not getting gas. It is possible that something was done that caused the ignition to act up.

Primary first principle of Trouble shouting start with easy/cheap and work back to more expensive/harder.

Keep us informed please.

 

[Slipknotcc]

Hey all,

Sorry for the delay again. Rain and school make car maintenance hard at times.

A friend had a spare Pertronix I unit that we tried, and the car started right away no problems. So I bought a new one and gave him back his spare and am using that at the moment.

To test the coil, I took the coil wire and put it near the block and saw a big spark.

Is there anything else I should check or is everything good? I believe what happened was that the spark plug wires were arcing and sending some really nasty current back to the Pertronix unit and fried it. The plug wires were pretty messed up on the inside, not exactly sure how yet, but the wire was pulled away from the metal clip that goes on the spark plug so it was arcing across and charred everything up.

Thanks for all the help,
Cory

 

[fordconvert]

Bad wires could easily fry a spark module. The bad connection requires a higher voltage to jump. The higher the voltage the more damage is done when it does make the jump so every spark makes it need even more voltage next time. Also that path becomes much less attractive for the spark so it begins to explore for another path through things you would never expect to have voltage in. Electronics are very sensitive to electric spikes. The spark could have jumped direct to the 12 side of things and got into the module.

 

[slowride]

Pertronix require 2 things..... excellent ground, and 12 volts. Your car should have a resistor wire in place of the traditional ballast resistor. Since you tested less than 12 volts at the coil, you need to bypass the resistor wire to get a full 12v to the coil. It's unlikely the wires were the cause of your problems as one benefit of the Pertronix is being able to run a wider plug gap. A bad ground will kill a module quickly as the voltage spikes are tough on them.
One thing I didn't catch is if you have a Pertronix 1 or 2. An advantage of the P2 is being able to leave the key on without frying the module. If you have a P1 and leave the key on (for extended periods), that will kill it. One quirk with the P2 (hopefully it's been fixed since I had this problem) is a nagging intermittent problem that eventually kills ALL ignition except for a really crappy idle.
Hope it helps....

 

[sixpony]

The pertronix unit itself requires 12v,but unless you have a coil made for 12v I would be careful about removing the resistor wire, I have an accel super stock coil and it ran super hot when I tried to run direct 12v, don't think it would have lasted long. Whoever installed the pertronix in your car probably ran a separate wire to the key switch for the pertronix, at least I would have. Congrats on your success.