Rear Main Seal for 65 200 inline 6

[falcon1963]

Echo, the original ford camshaft bolt has threads that cause an interference fit.

Either reuse the original bolt or get a bolt with a teflon locking insert or use a lock washer under a new fastener.

Whatever bolt you use put red loctite on the threads for cheap insurance. Falcon Man

 

[JackFish]

Echo, the original ford camshaft bolt has threads that cause an interference fit.

Either reuse the original bolt or get a bolt with a teflon locking insert or use a lock washer under a new fastener.

Whatever bolt you use put red loctite on the threads for cheap insurance. Falcon Man

Do not use red loctite. Do not use anything other than the appropriate torque specification. The bolt is not an interference fit. Where did you get that information?

 

[echo1955]

Echo, the original ford camshaft bolt has threads that cause an interference fit.

Either reuse the original bolt or get a bolt with a teflon locking insert or use a lock washer under a new fastener.

Whatever bolt you use put red loctite on the threads for cheap insurance. Falcon Man

I understand what you are saying... The problem I have with the original bolt is this:
I can screw the original bolt all the way in / in the original cam with my fingers:
I can't screw the original bolt in at all on my new cam: It goes in about 1/8" then impact time.

I can screw a new 7/16-18 bolt all the way-in / in the original cam and my new cam..

so something is wrong with the original bolt...
The threads are strange looking when you look close at it...

But there again you would need that cam spacer.. so a torch off out of the block would be in order...

I tried to show a pix of the bolt but the threads are hard to see real well...

The bolt has a star washer and a real thick washer.. they are A O K..

I dont mind using red on the bolt with the belief if the cam ever had to come out so will the timing chain need changing... any way its just a thought...

 

[falcon1963]

Echo, the original ford camshaft bolt has threads that cause an interference fit.

Either reuse the original bolt or get a bolt with a teflon locking insert or use a lock washer under a new fastener.

Whatever bolt you use put red loctite on the threads for cheap insurance. Falcon Man

Do not use red loctite. Do not use anything other than the appropriate torque specification. The bolt is not an interference fit. Where did you get that information?

Jackfish, you can do it your way, but the main thing is to help this fellow with newer & better things.

Your statements are far overshadowed by an expert such as 200 dragstang & myself.

After you build over 50 of these engines you see what was done by ford & then improve on it.

200 Dragstang has much more creditabilty than what you state.

Quote:The cam bolt is special. It is not a hardware item. Its made to be an interference fit so they don't vibrate loose. What is the problem with the bolt you have? Is it loose or is it that you just don't trust it anymore? I can't help you with where to find the right bolt. Ford? The better auto parts store? I am cheap. I have reused bolts before, making sure that they're still tight and pulls to torque solidly. In other words, the bolt is not stretching excessively. I always clean the threads of the bolt, cam, snout, sprocket, using brake cleaner and acetone. Then I use the permatex loc tite primer and the appropriate red loc tite. Don't have number in front of me and its a long, cold walk out to the shop in Michigan. I can get it if you need it. What I'm saying is, if you can't get the right new bolt, I would rather use a good, old bolt than the wrong bolt. But on second thought, if the ARP is designed for a Ford cam, you'll probably be alright. Of course, don't forget the cam spacer between the cam and the sprocket - not to be confused with the 2-bolt retaining plate.

Nuff said, lets give the guy good information from professionals.

 

[sctty1986]

the national oil seal part number u are trying to locate is the t26 -5116. i was lucky to find the last one at the parts shop bc my complete*** gaskert kit came with the rope seal and i got the lead all over my fingers and it stained. umm it is lead right u guys?

 

[sctty1986]

Howdy one and all..
I need to replace my cam bolt for a 65 200 inline 6.
It is a 7/16-14 x 1.25”
Anyone know where I can get it?

the bolt i see in this picture is stainless steel and IS NOT stock whatsoever if u look at the NON MECHANICAL FASTENER** meaning the lock washer. ive seen those lock washers on the installation plates for ceiling lamps. dump it . take the cam to the shop and match it up.

Also I want to us a Felpro PTFE Rubber Rear Main Seals.
Anyone know where I can get it.
All the parts store I have called refer to a rubber seal # BS3015
When I ask if it’s a PTFE, I get a…… hu?

Merry Christmas !

 

[drag-200stang]

Let's not get our shorts in a bunch ... we're all friends here. We have to be, there's so few of us Ford I-6ers.

1963 Falcon, thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm no professional but I've been around the block with these engines. I don't always get everything right.

I just got back from the workshop. I took a close look at one of the cam bolts I had. It clearly is different than a standard 7/16" bolt. A 7/16" nut will not screw on more than 1/4" on the used cam bolt. If you match it up to a 7/16" bolt thread you can clearly see that the cam bolt threads are not cut as deep. I was told by Ak Miller and a long time Ford parts man that they were special. I can't believe Ford made a bunch of bad bolts and each of us has these bad bolts. So I will stand by my original statement. I'm not saying the 7/16" bolt won't work, but I would definately red loc tite it.

Will just had one screw out through Kelly's timing chain cover and he said he loc tited it but the 250 has more harmonic vibrations. So there's proof that you need to do everything you can to help the bolt out. You may not be stressing your engine as hard as Kelly does.

Sctty1986, not doubting you but the bolt looks like a standard Ford cam bolt to me. I agree with you about no lock washers under the head of the bolt. They tend to open up or squash out leaving you with less torque than you should have after its been beat on. I don't remember ever seeing a lock washer of any type under the head of the cam bolt. Maybe on some of the late model engines? I personally would leave them off and go with the lok tite. Unless you know for a fact that it came that way, I'm thinking the engine was rebuilt before.

Echo, I hope I haven't muddied the waters for you any more than they already are.

 

[JackFish]

A correctly installed and torqued bolt should not need Loctite. IMHO.
I don't know if the original poster is spinning his engine up the way Will is, in fact I doubt it.

 

[echo1955]

Echo, the original ford camshaft bolt has threads that cause an interference fit.

Either reuse the original bolt or get a bolt with a teflon locking insert or use a lock washer under a new fastener.

Whatever bolt you use put red loctite on the threads for cheap insurance. Falcon Man

Quote:The cam bolt is special. It is not a hardware item. Its made to be an interference fit so they don't vibrate loose. What is the problem with the bolt you have? Is it loose or is it that you just don't trust it anymore? I can't help you with where to find the right bolt. Ford? The better auto parts store? I am cheap. I have reused bolts before, making sure that they're still tight and pulls to torque solidly. In other words, the bolt is not stretching excessively. I always clean the threads of the bolt, cam, snout, sprocket, using brake cleaner and acetone. Then I use the permatex loc tite primer and the appropriate red loc tite. Don't have number in front of me and its a long, cold walk out to the shop in Michigan. I can get it if you need it. What I'm saying is, if you can't get the right new bolt, I would rather use a good, old bolt than the wrong bolt. But on second thought, if the ARP is designed for a Ford cam, you'll probably be alright. Of course, don't forget the cam spacer between the cam and the sprocket - not to be confused with the 2-bolt retaining plate.

Nuff said, lets give the guy good information from professionals.

Thank you falcon1963
I have no problem what so ever reusing bolts… I prefer to do so..
I also understand the concept of interference type bolts fits…

The problem I’m having with this particular bolt with that inside star washer is this.

I can screw the original bolt all the way in with my fingers on the original cam…

Does this mean after I torque the original bolt to the new cam
Then
Un screw it
Then will I be able to screw the original bolt back in the new cam with my fingers?

This doesn’t make sense to me…

I use break cleaner and lacquer thinner for all my cleaning chores..
I do have a handle on the cam spacers..

The bolt I ordered from Jegs was wrong. But they did send me a free 5.00 cap, so all was not lost…
At this moment I cant say I trust this bolt..

The other bolt place I found had #8 but all were Made from medium carbon alloy steel, tempered, and
zinc plated ??

Have a Happy New Year..

 

[echo1955]

the national oil seal part number u are trying to locate is the t26 -5116. i was lucky to find the last one at the parts shop bc my complete*** gaskert kit came with the rope seal and i got the lead all over my fingers and it stained. umm it is lead right u guys?

Thank you sctty1986
but the only thing I get with that number is Sorry dont got...

Happy NewYear

 

[echo1955]

Howdy one and all..
I need to replace my cam bolt for a 65 200 inline 6.
It is a 7/16-14 x 1.25”
Anyone know where I can get it?

the bolt i see in this picture is stainless steel

and IS NOT stock whatsoever if u look at the NON MECHANICAL FASTENER** meaning the lock washer. ive seen those lock washers on the installation plates for ceiling lamps. dump it . take the cam to the shop and match it up.

Also I want to us a Felpro PTFE Rubber Rear Main Seals.
Anyone know where I can get it.
All the parts store I have called refer to a rubber seal # BS3015
When I ask if it’s a PTFE, I get a…… hu?

Merry Christmas !

Sometimes the lighting on the subject doesn’t help much with determining what it is..
According to my magnet it is not a SS bolt.

But you brought up a disturbing point.. with that inside star ceiling lamp washer..

This tells me a lot about the procedures used when that block was recondition.

It is a short block I bought from Pet Boys back in the 70’s.

So all bets are off when it comes to reusing some of these bolts.
That star has seen it’s last orbit…

Thanks for the heads up..

 

[echo1955]

drag-200stang one thing is for certain.
It is impossible for my water to be muddied.
I give it a healthy dose of common sense every day.. :mrgreen:

Well …every day I don’t forget to do so…

It makes sense to me a star washer of any kind there is not a good idea…
I have no problem using red on that bolt

I forgot o tell sctty1986 if he had not brought it up I would have put it back on..
When I saw it I gave it no thought what so ever.

Red lock-tite it is..

 

[echo1955]

A correctly installed and torqued bolt should not need Loctite. IMHO.
I don't know if the original poster is spinning his engine up the way Will is, in fact I doubt it.

As long as I’m driving the car JackFish it will never see 4500 rpm.

But who knows latter on down the road.. ??
I agree that a correctly installed and torqued bolt should be sufficient.

I also see no harm with using red on this particular bolt. It will require a torch for removal but the cam will come out easily enough.

Foe me the added insurance is worth the effort should I have to remove it..

Happy New Year

 

[drag-200stang]

Echo1955,

I know it seems to be an awful lot of discussion about one simple part of your project, but as you're seeing each person has caught things that the other has missed and I think ultimately you'll get a better job in the long run by getting the most imformation you can to make a decision.

I think we've established what's going on with the Ford bolt design and their cam, but what did Clay cams have in mind when they threaded their cam? Wouldn't hurt to call them and get their input. There's always manufacturing plus or minus tolerances. If the old bolt you have is on the large side and the Clay cam is threaded on the small side you definately could have an issue using the interference bolt. I guess what I'm saying is, be cautious if you use the old bolt. If it doesn't screw in with a reasonable amount of torque I wouldn't use it. Sometimes I think I should just quit talking...

P.S. make sure you get the oil galley plug in before you hide it with the cam sprocket. That one happens alot. Once its hidden it gets forgotten about.

 

[echo1955]

Hey drag-200stang

Information is vital if the objective is to reach a successful conclusion..
The problem with information is communication..

The problem with communication is communication…

Example:
“”I know you think you understand what I just said…
But I’m not so sure that what you heard me say
is what I meant…””

Fortunately for me I was able to eliminate several words and phrases from my vocabulary many years ago.

Example:
One of several words: “Cant”
One of several phrases: “Yea I Know”

This allowed me to do things others said was impossible
And
It allowed me to receive additional information regarding something I thought I already had all the answers to…

In my view processing incoming information requires a certain level of common since as well… the conclusions reached should be backed up with a healthy dose of cross references.

This is often referred to as Double checking…and for me triple checking..
What is the harm in confirming a ""Dead Horse"" is really dead…… :mrgreen:

This site is dedicated to transmitting and receiving information.
That can’t happen if the transmitting part is held back…

I think you catch my drift… :mrgreen:

Thank you for the oil galley plug..
Now guess what…….
Before I post this I’m on my way out to confirm the oil galley plug.

This is called double checking….

Guess what..
That plug was not in… think about the massive headache you just saved my skinny azz..
I put the one in the back because that’s the only one I took out before I sent the block to B&B.
I thought the other plug in the kit was for another motor…

So keep talking man kuz ya just saved my azz big time…
Hell this is so long I dun forgot what my point was.. :mrgreen:

Have a great New Year…and Thanks again......
roy

 

[echo1955]

Now I'm on my way to put that plug in..

 

[echo1955]

The bolt than came off the old cam after breaking the torque, I could screw it in with my fingers.
The same bolt will only go in about 1/16” on my new cam with my fingers and then I need a 1/2” impact to seat it.
This scared the crap out of me…

The ARP bolt I ordered from Jegs is for a 65 Ford SB..

Echo,

Similar problem. Bolt didn't want to go into the Clay Smith cam... Curious how this is resolved because I'm in the same boat on my build.

According to the ARP catalog, the SB Ford cam bolt is a 3/8-16. Looks like we need the 390-428 FE cam bolt (7/16-14) BUT... looks to be a tad long.

Scot in OKC

Thank you Scot

I will Call George at Clay Smith Cam Monday 3 Jan and see if i can get this resolved. If the 390-428 is a 7/16-14 I can see no harm in using a ban saw to cut the sucker.

But let me confirm this with Gorge first

 

[bubba22349]

Did you get the rear main seal in?

 

[echo1955]

Yes I have both, but the new seal is not the kind I was looking for. Now I thinking to go with the rope because the crank shaft boss where the seal rides against is in mint condition. No groves no nothing. the oil slinking groves there are in mint condition as well.

There is no seal grove worn into it like you see on the dampner snout more often than not...

what ya thunk.. :mrgreen:

 

[bubba22349]

I alway will run a rubber lip type seal if they happen to make one for what ever engine am working on. It's like a little free H.P. :rolflmao: If you still have the rope seal installed you can see for yourself how much drag they are use your torque wrench and turn the crank than check again with the rubber seal and more drag = less power. It comes down to what you like or trust they both will work well though. If you use the lip install it with the ends turned just slightly past the blocks parting line (1/16 to an 1/8) use a very small dab of silicone on each end and bolt her down.