Building new engine, need opinions?

[Anonymous]

Stopped by the machine shop yesterday and got the prices

Bore block $163.00
Deck block .020 $177.00
Hot tank $48.00
Install cam bearings $42.00
Install freeze plugs $17.00

Total=$447.00

Now they want $188.00 to line bore it....

Does it need to be done or not or can they check it and see? I never stopped to think about it or I woulda asked them about it yesterday

RPM's for this motor are going to be in the 6500-6700 for a shift point and I would like to see the compression ratio around 11:0-11:5.1

Cam is going to be around .500 lift 276-280 duration and either 110 or 108 lobe centers.

Question #2

Forged or cast pistons?

I'm not planning on boosting or spraying it but it is going to be a high rpm motor.

My current motor has cast pistons and I always shift it at 6 grand when I beat on it.

I used to race a small block Dodge back in 1980's and I ran these kind of rpm's with that for several years with cast pistons and I didnt have a problem with that allthough I was only running 10:1 compression with iron heads.

I am going to be running forged rods and ARP fasteners throughout an it will be balanced again.

question #3

Carb size?

I'm going to be running a 4 Bbl Holley any ideas on cfm's?

Of course, this is gonna be topped off with Mikes new aluminum head.

Some of the other prices they gave me was,

Hang pistons $60.00
Recon rods $118.00
Balance $228.00

I'm going to run roller rockers, performance balancer, 7 qt oil pan and a few other select parts off my current motor.

I'm wanting to run 13.90's at least in the qtr

Thanks,

Doug

 

[STEVEN.]

Question 4. What happend to the engine Douggie---you didin't...well..---> :splat: :shockin: <--- did you : Building a spare bullet,then : ~OO6.

 

[addo]

Line bore bearing sets are usually special order. ACL used to do them; probably still offer. Wouldn't need depend on the torquings you intend? I mean, if you plan to oversize the head studs and increase torque, and maybe use billeted mains caps etc etc, I could see a possible need.

Wouldn't touch forged pistons myself. FTF has shown what a properly fitted set of hypereutectics can get up to.

 

[Gene Fiore]

We're still waiting to see what the current motor turns in the 1/4 ??

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

I think you need to blow on it. come on...DO IT DOUG!!

 

[Anlushac11]

8)

Im wary of cast pistons combined with high rpm (over 6000) AND high compression.

Cast pistons I dont think will mind the rpm as long as they are balanced.

Cast pistons dont mind high compression

But have a knock or any detonation at rpm's and I dont trust the cast piston to hold together.

I have cast pistons in my Probe and have hit 6500+rpms or a few occasions...by accident...Honest!

but its more the danger of knocking or detonation that scares me most.

As for carb I would think a modified Holley 390cfm 4bbl would be a good choice.

Back when I had the Oz head with 4bbl intake I found a Motorcraft (Holley?) 4bbl that was rated for 390cfm and was supposed to have come off of a 360 V8 F-series PU.

IMHO as long as you are running the crank that came with the motor I dont think it needs align bored. It was my understanding that you did that on race motors to get everything blueprinted to square and if you changed main caps or crank.

 

[wsa111]

Doug, you need to step up to the yella-terra 1.65 full rollerized arms to save on friction & give you more lift & this will also add 2 degrees of duration @ .050 camshaft lift.

You will need the small block fords oil through lifters to do this.

If you ever want to go back to the 1.6 rockers I have all the specs for the .150 shorter pushrod which is available from clay smith & is not an oil through pushrod & then you go back to the rocker shaft oiling design, but still retain the oil through lifters so you don't have to purchase a new camshaft with the non oiling lifter for camshaft-lifter compatibility.

As adam states if you can find hyperutectic pistions use them, they will give you that extra protection needed for a super high performance engine.

For carburetion use the 390 vacuum secondary holley carb.

The vacuum secondaries seem to work better with a auto trans & especially a carb which is on the large size.

The cost to deck the block seems high, but remember you have to install the crankshaft & a rod & piston in # 1 hole & # 6 hole so they can "0" deck the block the block properly,

Good luck on your project, Bill

 

[Anonymous]

I used to race a small block Dodge back in 1980's and I ran these kind of rpm's with that for several years with cast pistons and I didnt have a problem

Apples to oranges....small block mopars have a FAR superior rod/stroke ratio!

We're still waiting to see what the current motor turns in the 1/4 ??

YES, excellent question!

What does the current engine run??

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

I think someone is trying to figure out how their turbo stacks up!!!

 

[Anonymous]

I think someone is trying to figure out how their turbo stacks up!!!

I'm not trying to start a fight...
I just want to see his baseline to work from (before and after)

...I mean, he says it is fast, but what numbers does it run?

 

[Anonymous]

I think someone is trying to figure out how their turbo stacks up!!!

besides, we are 1000 miles apart.
We would have to meet in Memphis to run heads up!

 

[CZLN6]

Howdy back Doug and All:

Wow!!! What a fun project.

On the pistons- The downsides of forged pistons are the noise, especially on start up, the price, if you can find them, and the lack of a track record in our sixes. I'd be more inclined to go with small dish cast pistons, with hand-fitted or gapless rings, and use one of the thermal coatings on the market for the top, and possibly an anti-friction coating on the skirts.

With your intended cam, carb, small diameter bore, dished pistons, aluminum head and high quality ignition, I doubt that knock, or pre-ignition will be much of a problem.

If you can find a Hypereutectic piston at a reasonable price that would be a good choice. Stronger than cast, but less expense and noise of forged. still consider coatings and lightening.

I would also lighten the rod/piston package a reasonable amount, removing sharp edges and stress risers. Reciprocating weight is what is multiplied as RPMs go up. Less is better- up to the point of weakening the part.

On Line-boring- I would do this only if a problem existed, if I were putting an unknown crank into an unknown block or if torque values were going to be changed on the crankshaft web.

On the cam- I'd choose a cam that matched the flow characteristics of the head I intended to use. For example, If the head flows a maximum cfm at .450" of valve lift, there not much sense in a cam with much more than .500" of valve lift. Any more than usable is wasted motion and adds stress and wear. Duration and lobe center characteristics will be more dependent on intended use. What is the intended use for this engine?

I love the Holley #8007 4150 type carb. It is very tuneable, except for the idle circuit channel restriction. It is rated at 390 cfm using the V8 4 barrel standard. Using the one and two barrel standard for comparison it would be rated at 546 cfm- more than enough for your purposes. The vacuum secondaries are very forgiving and easily tuned.

*Be sure to deck the block to a true zero.
*Balance both statically and dynamically.
*Bore and hone using some sort of torque plate or torque replicator so that cylinder bore distortion is dealt with as part of the boring/honing process.

Thanks for the opportunity to give you some input. We're off to Jackson, WY for a day trip to check out the fall colors. How about some feedback from you Doug? Til tomorrow.

Adios, David

 

[ochretoe]

besides, we are 1000 miles apart.
We would have to meet in Memphis to run heads up! [/quote]

The midsouth nationals hot rod show and race is next weekend here in Millington/Memphis. Lets set up a grudge match. I'll even feed you all and give you free camp sites.

 

[Anonymous]

The midsouth nationals hot rod show and race is next weekend here in Millington/Memphis. Lets set up a grudge match. I'll even feed you all and give you free camp sites.

That's a generous offer!

Maybe once we both have our new engines finished up

 

[XFlow_Fairlane]

I won't be ready for a trip to the track for another year or two at the soonest (need some big time chassis work badly)

 

[AzCoupe]

Doug,

Since your going to keep it N/A, I have an extra set of Iapel 40 over forged flat tops sittin on the self, complete with the pins. I had John send me up two set from Argentina last summer, and still have them. I have plans for one set, but if your interested, shoot me a PM and I'll make you a good deal on the other set.

 

[wsa111]

Doug, I just read Mike's website on the new cylinder head & Mike will need help from you on this as it also mentioned stud mounted rockers arms.
I don't know what type of rocker arm could be used but it would sure cut cost & use an existing full roller rocker arm just like a small block ford or chevy???

Its worth checking out. Bill

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry I havent had time to reply to any of your guys help!

Let me read it all and get back with you all this weekend!

Mike,

If it happens to need a .040 overbore then I will consider your offer

Bill,

Do you have a link to the page your talking about?

David,

Is hypereuectic pistons available for the small six?

On another note.....

Won top ten again in another car show tonite. 4th time this year the mighty 6 has placed top 10 or won its class. Since I have to enter my car in the 65-66 Mustang modified class I always have to compete against V8 cars.....there was never a 6 cylinder car in any of our classes...

I just found out that our Mustang club (West Michigan Mustang Club) is going to US 131 Motorsports Park in Martin Michigan this coming Saturday so my buddy is going to load it up on his trailer (2 hour drive) and God willing we'll find out if its actually as fast as it looks!

Later,

Doug

 

[wsa111]

Doug, this is whats on Mike's info on his new cylinder head.

http://www.classicinlines.com/orderonline.asp#NPhead

?????? Need to ask mike after this.

 

[Anonymous]

Won top ten again in another car show tonite. 4th time this year the mighty 6 has placed top 10 or won its class.

You deserve it......its a beautiful car with a lot of attention to detail and applied innovation