updated...TIMING COVER IS OFF ... SEE PICTURES..

[fordconvert]

here is my thread about worn chain.

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... ming+chain

This motor had been worked on before.

FWIW same chain set went back in with a different used cam and ran fine all last summer. Ended up with full rebuild on the head and still had the idle issue that seems to be fuel related. Will find out more this summer when I go to EFI.

 

[Anonymous]

Just like I prognosticated above, that chain looks perfectly fine.

It may not have been replaced when the motor was rebuilt, but that chain is NOT your problem.

Maybe the reason you get so frazzled working on the car is because you don't listen to people who know about such things and insist on making more work for yourself

Have fun putting that all back together and keeping it from leaking...

Hey Ian,

Do you have to be so condescending? I have ignored it like 5 times but I must comment now. I have been doing the best I can. I’m not an idiot.

 

[Bort62]

Hey Ian,

Do you have to be so condescending? I have ignored it like 5 times but I must comment now. I have been doing the best I can. I’m not an idiot.

Call it condescending if you like, but If you are unwilling to listen to the advice of people on this board regarding what is likely wrong with your car, then why are you here? We all come onto this board looking for help, and when others take time to give their advice, and you choose to ignore it, then come back asking more questions, it rubs some of us the wrong way I guess. I have learned a lot off this board, and I feel that I have helped a lot of people with their own problems. It is frustrating when someone comes here and doesn't want to listen...

 

[addo]

One eighth of an inch - I presume that's at the sprocket tips, not the wrench end - is about three cam degrees; not enough to cause a chronic transition from running well to poorly, if everything else was OK.

Did the dot alignment thing I mentioned, check out?

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Ian,

Do you have to be so condescending? I have ignored it like 5 times but I must comment now. I have been doing the best I can. I’m not an idiot.

Call it condescending if you like, but If you are unwilling to listen to the advice of people on this board regarding what is likely wrong with your car, then why are you here? We all come onto this board looking for help, and when others take time to give their advice, and you choose to ignore it, then come back asking more questions, it rubs some of us the wrong way I guess. I have learned a lot off this board, and I feel that I have helped a lot of people with their own problems. It is frustrating when someone comes here and doesn't want to listen...

I honestly have no idea were you are coming from. I have listened to every suggestion offered. I have appreciated all of them. I have had this car for 7 years, restored it myself. So I have done my share of troubleshooting etc...

As far as taking off the timing cover. I did not really think it would be the chain (I hoped it would be!). I did not think it would be because:

1) It should be new after rebuild
2) rotor tracked without any lag time.

I figured that since I had radiator out etc. I may as well have a look just incase. My decision. I kind of just needed to look in there. Know I'm going to replace the chain because I intend to keep the car probabley until I croak. I will know that part is good and continue trying to fix this car.

I'm sure your thinking something like...I bet he did not set the points or something. I assure you have done everything I can possibley think of. Even got vacuum gauge as suggested. Possibly by you?

This is one of those really funky weird problems. I'm sure I will eventually figure it out. At least I hope!

 

[Anonymous]

One eighth of an inch - I presume that's at the sprocket tips, not the wrench end - is about three cam degrees; not enough to cause a chronic transition from running well to poorly, if everything else was OK.

Did the dot alignment thing I mentioned, check out?

Yeah the dots appear to line through the centers as you said they should...

I guess change the gears + chain and put her back together?

 

[Bort62]

A few posts ago, myself and several others suggested strongly that you upgrade to a DSII.

You were very stubborn in insisting that the DSII was too much work, and that buying another stock load-o would fix the problem.

Well, here we are - and your car still doesn't work right, and you have created a lot of work for yourself.

Never enough time to do it right the first time.

If you want to fix your car, put it back together, put a DSII in there, and then report back. Maybe the DSII will fix it, maybe not - but the point is the load-o-matic is such a huge piece of crap that you are going to be chasing your tail until you get it out of there.

I don't mean to be a dick, I honestly want to help (or else I wouldn't be posting) - But it gets extremely frustrating to watch someone go in circles when you can tell them exactly how to get to point B... they just don't want to listen to you.

 

[wsa111]

Reweb, nice looking car.
Put a voltmeter on the primary side of the coil & monitor it.
Hook a dwell meter to the -side of the coil & moniter that.
Is the dowel pin in the camshaft at the timing gear there & does it fit in the keyway of the timing gear.
Is the keyway in the crankshaft in proper engagement with the crankshaft timing gear???
After what you have gone through, i think it is time to get a second opinion professional technician to check your engine out. Gook luck Bill

 

[Asa]

Just like I prognosticated above, that chain looks perfectly fine.

It may not have been replaced when the motor was rebuilt, but that chain is NOT your problem.

Maybe the reason you get so frazzled working on the car is because you don't listen to people who know about such things and insist on making more work for yourself

Have fun putting that all back together and keeping it from leaking...

that is a really negative post, and it's quite obvious that he's got more than enough problems without you talking like that
it is not in keeping with the spirit of this board, and it's not appreciated

how many times have you tried to chase down a problem, tried every avenue, and not had anything work no matter what you try?
what happens when he swaps to a DSII and it doesn't fix the problem? throwing money at a problem isn't the way to fix it

 

[JackFish]

Just like I prognosticated above, that chain looks perfectly fine.

It may not have been replaced when the motor was rebuilt, but that chain is NOT your problem.

Maybe the reason you get so frazzled working on the car is because you don't listen to people who know about such things and insist on making more work for yourself

Have fun putting that all back together and keeping it from leaking...

that is a really negative post, and it's quite obvious that he's got more than enough problems without you talking like that
it is not in keeping with the spirit of this board, and it's not appreciated

how many times have you tried to chase down a problem, tried every avenue, and not had anything work no matter what you try?
what happens when he swaps to a DSII and it doesn't fix the problem? throwing money at a problem isn't the way to fix it

I'd have to agree. Even Joe suggested it might be worth a look, so why not? Now we can rule it out and move on, without getting personal.

 

[Anonymous]

Personal opinion here:

You have the car apart already, and there is a bit of wear on the chain set, so I would go ahead and drop a new one in it before you wrap up the -front end, it is a good idea. (Just like I would always put a new oil-pump on if the pan is down anyway, but that's just me.)

Now, once you have the front back together, I would concentrate on the distributor, here's why:

-There are only a few parts that have any effect on the ACTUAL timing event, and you have ruled out the drive side by checking the chain-set.

-The coil is not breaking down, and if it was the symptoms would be intermitant spark delivery, or no spark delivery at all, so that can be eliminated.

-You have checked for adequate and consistent vacuum (right?), so that can't be the issue.

That leaves only the points, rotor, cap, drive gear, and the vacuum advance components as the remaining suspects. ALL of which are either an integral part of, or located within the distributor itself.

Process of elimination in my opinion.

I still wonder if you might not be having an issue with the advance mechanism within the distributor. Have you checked to make sure everything is free to move as it should?

By the way, nice looking car, wanna trade?

 

[bigfordsix]

The chain looked fine to me, but your this far anyways, so it's a perfect time to make an upgrade in this part of your engine. Like Grocery Getter suggested, try running it without the vacuum hooked up, and buy or borrow a dwell meter that way you can monitor how the dizzy itself is behaving once you get it back together. If your dwell isn't fluctuating and your timing stays true, then you will know that your dizzy is fine and that your problem is in the vacuum circuit. In that case, or regardless for that matter, since you are planning on keeping the car, I would go ahead and switch to the DSII dizzy. The swap isn't hard to do and will give you a stronger, more stable spark, and more reliable ignition system than you currently have now.

 

[Anonymous]

(this is a response to Ian)

I understand the value of electronic ignition. I really do..That is why I ran a Pertonix 1 on this car for about 5 years. Until a few months ago when my resisitor wire fried and I replaced it. I went back to points while I was trying to figure out what was wrong.

I also ran the same load-o for 7 years without issue so I feel like they can work. When the car is broken I'm simply not in the mood for an upgrade.

Get DS2 is good solid advice. Yes, I am not taking it right now. I fully intend to do the updrage at some point I swear!

I took out my old load-o that appeared to have nothing wrong and put in another rebuild. Car behaved EXACTLY the same. Before and after...makes me think not distributor....

Anyhow no hard feeling I hope.. just please take it easy. I'm already frustrated and no one likes to be talked down too.

I appreciate all of the advice.

 

[bigfordsix]

I can understand how you feel right now. Just to throw out an idea, and I really don't know how to check it, but perhaps the problem isn't in the dizzy but rather the spark control valve (SCV). It's on the carb right? Maybe somebody will coment who's more familiar with the SCV and how it's supposed to be operating. Good luck.

 

[Bort62]

I can understand how you feel right now. Just to throw out an idea, and I really don't know how to check it, but perhaps the problem isn't in the dizzy but rather the spark control valve (SCV). It's on the carb right? Maybe somebody will coment who's more familiar with the SCV and how it's supposed to be operating. Good luck.

That is an excellent point, and could very well be true.

 

[Bort62]

that is a really negative post, and it's quite obvious that he's got more than enough problems without you talking like that
it is not in keeping with the spirit of this board, and it's not appreciated

Maybe I've just been posting on the HAMB too much recently. I apologize if I took it over the top.

But, honestly, I really just want to help the dude fix his car. And I really know how too - Just listen to me! lol

 

[Asa]

oh i understand
i don't post on the HAMB, but unfortunately i'm a member of GenMay and regularly post in their automotive section

i do not recommend anyone join, and further i recommend anyone that knows anyone that joins to shoot that person
do not go to genmay, i will not be held responsible for the sanity of anyone who goes there

 

[66 Fastback]

I have been watching both of these posts and am at a loss as to why you would have to constantly re-set the static timing on different distributors. I had a distributor with a worn bushing on a motorcycle and it would do just as you describe. I could set it, time it and drive down the road only to have it start misfiring. I would check it and it was out of adjustment again. However, unlike your problem, the distributor swap cured the problem. I don't see another distributor swap fixing your problem, it does not get any simpler than a points distributor. I have never seen what model of carburetor you are running. How much are you have to turn the distributor to get it back in time?
Doug

 

[BIGREDRASA]

Hey Ian,

Do you have to be so condescending? I have ignored it like 5 times but I must comment now. I have been doing the best I can. I’m not an idiot.

Call it condescending if you like, but If you are unwilling to listen to the advice of people on this board regarding what is likely wrong with your car, then why are you here? We all come onto this board looking for help, and when others take time to give their advice, and you choose to ignore it, then come back asking more questions, it rubs some of us the wrong way I guess. I have learned a lot off this board, and I feel that I have helped a lot of people with their own problems. It is frustrating when someone comes here and doesn't want to listen...

Ian, please listen to some of the others on this board. This is not some for-profit or government outfit. The most basic rule is to be respectful. You are not being respectful. Why are you here?

This has always been a kinder. gentler forum. Let's keep it that way.

Reweb, I'm not as experienced as Addo, but that wear on your gears is strange. I would have expected to see wear on one side of the gear teeth, not both. There is something funky going on here. You should be able to briefly run the engine for a few seconds with the timing cover off. Have someone else crank it up, while you look at the crankshaft snout and chain. Stop it, then start againg. Look closely at the chain and gears. I'm starting to think you have something really unusual going on, like a bent crankshaft snout.

 

[Ronbo]

Man, that sure does sound like the advance sticking. I saw where you checked it up in the begining of the post but is there any chance it is like intermittent? Hanging up occasionally? I had a non-load-o do that before, the little plastic button that the plate rides on was worn out to the point where the plate would hang up sometimes. The chances of that happening after replacing the distributor are slim though..


Ron